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Minutes of 3/21/2011

March 26th, 2011

Carroll Board of Selectmen
Meeting Minutes
March 21, 2011

"These minutes of the Town of Carroll Select Board have been recorded by its Secretary. Though believed to be accurate and correct they are subject to additions, deletions and corrections by the Select Board at its next meeting when the Board votes its final approval of the minutes. They are being made available at this time to conform to the requirements of New Hampshire RSA 91-A:2."

Minutes recorded by Maryclare Quigley, Secretary

Board members present: Mark Catalano, Bonnie Moroney, Bill Dowling

The meeting was called to order at 7:02 PM by Chairman Catalano

Members of the public present: Roberta McGee, Frank Maturo, Linda Dowling, “Ike” Ikasalo, Al Strasser, Jack Catalano, Mike Perlmutter, Paul Cormier, Greg Hogan, Frank Davis, Bill Vecchio, Lisa Covey, Jim Covey, Bill Smalley, Scott Sonia, John Trammell, Jeff Duncan, Tadd Bailey, Ben Jellison, Jeremy Oleson, Evan Karpf, Butch Garneau, Merriam O’Neal, Donna Foster

Pledge of Allegiance

Chairman Catalano read the following statement: “This meeting is being taped by a private citizen and is not done under the sponsorship of the town and is not an official record of the town.”

Chairman Catalano made a Motion to: Accept the minutes for March 14, 2011. Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion passed unanimously.

Stan Borkowski’s report was received and posted.

Chairman Catalano spoke of the Select Board agenda and meeting policy and gave a brief history as well as the concern that people have an opportunity to speak at the meetings. He said he feels these do not need to be changed but offered additional ones regarding courtesy and respect. The Chairman said these are not meant to stifle discussion, but the Select Board needs to be able to have discussion without interruption. These additions are as follows:
1. There will be no conversation between members of the public once the meeting has started.
2. There will be no public input unless the person is invited to speak by the Selectmen.
3. There will be no interruption of a duly recognized speaker.
4. Any uninvited comments, utterances, or inappropriate behavior will be called “out of order.”
5. Two occasions that a person is called out of order will result in his removal from the meeting.
6. Attendance by Town employees and/or department heads at governments meetings, unless
required by the Board of Selectmen, will NOT be considered “time worked.”
7. All those in attendance will be seated. If there is not enough room to seat everyone in the
meeting room, the meeting will be held in the gym. (Exception – requested police presence).

Selectman Moroney asked for discussion of number 7, and asked why it mattered if they sit. Chairman Catalano responded that he feels it signifies division and people need to be mixed. Further, that it is like lines of demarcation and reminded that sparks have flown between the people sitting and standing. Selectman Dowling agreed that people need sit and said money had been spent on chairs, so use them. Butch Garneau opined that that it seemed more like a dictatorship than a democracy and he doesn’t think it will change any feelings. Chairman Catalano replied that if nothing is done, nothing will change. Mr. Garneau continued that most discussion needs a vote, and they’ve said people cannot speak until after the meeting. He asked what if they had something to add. The Chairman said according to the RSA’s, the public is not necessarily there to speak, only to see the Select Board do business in public. Mr. Garneau added that he felt they should have a turn to speak before a vote is taken; they have been asked their opinion in the past. After further discussion, Al Strasser pointed out that there is a difference between a public hearing and a regular meeting – it is at the public hearing that people should speak, while a regular meeting is when the Selectmen do their business.

Selectman Dowling made a Motion to: Accept the Rules of Courtesy and Respect. Chairman Catalano seconded with the caveat that if people raise their hands and discuss without discourse, it will be allowed. With two in favor and one opposed, the Motion passed.

Mike Perlmutter introduced himself and explained he is in the process of building a house on the Cherry Mountain Road. He said the town of Jefferson plows the part of the road that is in Jefferson and that a neighbor plows the part in Carroll. He said he is concerned about how emergency vehicles would get through if the neighbor is unable to plow. He requested that the town of Carroll plow the remainder of the road. It was determined that this is at the Route 115 end of Cherry Mountain Road, when it was noted that due to an agreement with the State the town plows to the gate on the Route 302 end. It was pointed out that Mr. Perlmutter’s driveway permit is from the State and that it says “not maintained for winter travel.” Length of the road and distance for plowing were discussed, but actual distances were not really know, i.e. how much of the road is in Jefferson and how much is in Carroll. This will be determined.

Paul Cormier, Mr. Perlmutter’s builder, said this is a Class II road and from the fire service gates, both sides are closed for the winter. He said for much of its history, there were no buildings on the road and therefore Carroll did not plow, but that has changed now. He said he felt part of the site plan review before the Planning Board is to make sure the town can provide services. Mr. Cormier suggested it might be better economically to have Carroll pay Jefferson to plow the remaining part of the road since they go there anyway. It is quite a distance for the Carroll Highway Department to travel just to do that part, as there is no other Carroll roadway nearby. The question was also asked if Highway truck would actually be able to turn around to come back down. Selectman Moroney said we shouldn’t rush into anything as we need to find out some answers. Chairman Catalano agreed and said the item should be tabled until we can find out some details such as cost and if a truck could turn around, among them. Chairman Catalano made a Motion to: Table this item to get more information and bring it up when it is received. Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion passed.
Chairman Catalano said the goal is to talk with Greg and Jeff as well as the State. Scott Sonia said we need to be careful as there are other roads that are not maintained in town because they are not up to town specs.

The Catalano tax matter was next and Chairman Catalano recused himself and left the table to sit in the audience. Selectman Moroney stated Attorney Mitchell had called and spoken with Selectman Dowling about the issue and asked Selectman Dowling if he had any concerns or questions. He said his concern was about the assessment because there is no liquor license. Selectman Moroney said that’s not how the State looks at it and we have to go by the State. Mr. Dowling said he had spoken with the State and that’s what he had been told. He also said he had spoken with Jack and he said his daughter, who is a co-owner, was not happy with the new value. Mr. Catalano said he had called Attorney Mitchell back who said it was too late, as they had already reached a settlement. Selectman Dowling said he didn’t understand about the value when they don’t have a liquor license and Selectman Moroney reiterated that that is how the State looks at things and the Town has to go by the State – they have no choice in the matter. Selectman Dowling said he would agree with $900. Selectman Moroney said to go with what’s settled it would be $970 and when asked if it were to go to court, she said there is a court date a week from Wednesday which would cost the town more money. She said this has gone on now for quite awhile with a lot of expense already. Discussion of appraisals ensued and it was noted that when the settlement was reached, Attorney Mitchell cancelled the one which was to have taken place the next day. Further discussion took place and Selectman Moroney asked Mr. Catalano if she was under the right impression that he doesn’t want this deal now and that he wants to go to court. Mr. Catalano said he does not want the $970, that he would agree to the $900 and Selectman Moroney said that is not an option for this Board. He disagreed and spoke of various values that had come from the different appraisals. Selectman Moroney said he had been working with the lawyers that she was not involved in it, and basically it had been turned over by the Town to the lawyer to work through it. Mr. Catalano disagreed that it could not be changed, as he said if it goes to court it might very well be. The Secretary said Attorney Mitchell said it is extremely important to settle this and had given her two phone numbers to call him tonight if there were any questions during the meeting. Selectman Moroney read an email from Jack Catalano to Attorney Mitchell dated March 8, 2011, in which he agreed to the assessment of $970,000.

Selectman Dowling also brought up the presentation that Ron Cote from the DRA made to the Select Board in May, 2010, regarding the town assessments. Selectman Dowling said Mr. Cote said some assessments were about 12 % high, and it was noted this was on a property-by-property check. If his assessment differs, he goes back to the original appraiser to look at it again, to see if they can get closer together. Mr. Cote has said in conversations that this company has been quite close to what he has come up with. It was pointed out that Mr. Cote also said some assessments were low and these were mostly on the higher-valued properties. Selectman Moroney asked Selectman Dowling if he had any other questions which he said he did not, so she asked if he was in favor of the $970,000 with the assessment lowered by $209,306. After further discussion of appraisals and values, Mr. Catalano said he had been fair, honest and reasonable and said he felt the town should give a break to a citizen. He said the town is too happy to take away from their people -- he said he wanted the value placed at $929,000. At this time, Selectman Moroney decided to telephone Attorney Mitchell. Ben Jellison clarified that this was still ongoing – there had been nothing signed to this point, only the agreement by email and verbal. After her conversation with Attorney Mitchell, Selectman Moroney asked Selectman Dowling if he would agree to $929 and he said he would. Selectman Moroney made a Motion to accept the $929 ($929,000) adjustment. Selectman Dowling seconded and it passed. Chairman Catalano had been recused and did not vote.

Chairman Catalano said it was customary for the Board to go over Board assignments for the year. He had a list of the various boards in town as well as departments to which he thought a Selectperson would be assigned. It was pointed out that Select Board members do not sit on departments as alone they are unable to do anything and it is much better if the department head would come to Board meetings as requested or assigned – they would be much more effective that way. Otherwise, Chairman Catalano named the Board, asked who was currently on it and what they would like to do. Results as follows:

Budget Committee – Mark Catalano
Conservation Committee – Bonnie Moroney, said she had been on it and didn’t care if she stayed
Master Plan – CIP – Bonnie Moroney, currently on it anyway
Planning Board – Bill Dowling
Cable Committee – Mark Catalano, currently on it and would like to stay
Building Feasibility – Bill Dowling
Safety Committee – Bonnie Moroney, currently on it
Economic Development – Mark Catalano – It was noted this is somewhat unknown, but
Chairman Catalano feels it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the town to have this committee. After
general discussion, it was agreed it would be advantageous to get this up and running again,
not just to bring new business to town, but to work with what we have with the goal to reduce
the taxpayer burden.

Chairman Catalano said the main reason for the financial discussion on town spending is because there is a lot happening at the state and county level that will affect the town and he wants to put a freeze on anything that is not mandatory. He explained he is also talking about the revenue side as well, what is coming in is less. His list includes:
1. All know the reval will be completed in 2012 – there is a general feeling the values will come
down. According to sources including BTLA, municipal lawyers, etc., the county could lose
as much as 25% of its value.
2. Abatements may increase for 2011.
3. State money is becoming less.
4. Unfunded mandates such as the state reducing their portion of NH retirement and the town
will have to pick up the difference.

He pointed out the county is possibly looking at big increases and our existing employee manual also needs revamping.

Chairman Catalano would like to stop all non-mandatory spending, the exception would be the new police cruiser which is on order. He spoke of contacting Commerford Nieder & Perkins about the number of abatements outstanding, though it was suggested we might get that from Becki, also, and find out the date to get these resolved. In short, he wants to review projected impact on taxes as well as reduction of revenues. His concern is the value used when the town is taxed by the county and school and to be sure we aren’t paying on a higher value. Donna Foster asked about the spending freeze and what happens in the case of an emergency. Chairman Catalano said the department heads should still be able to take care of this – it would not be considered non-mandatory. Ben Jellison asked if this refers to the warrant articles that the legislative body voted on. Chairman Catalano said this gave the Selectmen the authority to expend the monies but they don’t have to do it, though he’s not saying don’t do it, just hold off until we know tax impact. Mr. Jellison said the money in the special accounts has no impact on the taxes, and Chairman Catalano said they would be included as it is still considered money in the account. He pointed out that they used a large portion of the unreserved fund balance to reduce the taxes for 2010, and that will not be able to happen again. It was questioned as the special revenue accounts have specific reasons where else could this money be spent. Jeff Duncan said he believes the Selectmen are not agents on the special funds. He went on to say if they order the defibrillator which is part of a warrant article, by the end of the month, they will save $11,000, so decisions to spend need to be made. Further discussion of RSA’s, town meeting appropriations and how special revenue funds are set up took place. Jim Covey said he believes it is important to set a timeframe so the department heads will have an idea of what they’re doing. Mr. Duncan asked if they plan to encumber money from this year if they push out the timeframe as orders may not be billed in 2011 and the money was appropriated this year. They cannot answer this yet, but it was noted money may be encumbered as long as there is a signed contract. Mrs. Foster said she believes situations need to be looked at for cost effectiveness also.

“Ike” Ikasalo asked about the police cruiser, the kind, brand. Chairman Catalano said they had looked at four different vehicles and turned it over to Sgt. Smalley who is in charge of police vehicles. Sgt. Smalley said they have ordered a 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 4-wheel drive crew cab pick-up truck. Mr. Ikasalo said not many police departments are riding around in pick-up trucks and asked about justifying this and if it will meet their needs. Sgt. Smalley said it will meet their needs and it is a larger, cheaper vehicle than the others. They also feel when it is done as a frontline emergency vehicle, it could be turned over to another department to get further use from it. They will be replacing the Charger and when they placed the order, they were given a trade-in over $3,000 for it. They compared many vehicles which were all state bids, but a town resident stepped up and helped them get a good deal for which they are very thankful. When asked if they did cost analysis and if they considered a cruiser as opposed to what they are getting, Sgt. Smalley said yes they had. They chose to replace the Charger with this particular vehicle, not only because it had been in the shop more than out of it and was very expensive to keep on the road because of all the repairs, but because if they replace the Tahoe with a car, they could end up without any 4-wheel drive vehicle. He said it’s a bit of a shoot anyway, which vehicle will break down and when, but they had to make the best decision they could.

Sgt. Smalley said if the Selectmen choose to change the way they do things, that their prerogative, but he has been handling the vehicles the same way for 23 years and believe it has been working fine. They ordered the pick-up truck because it is $6,000 to $8,000 cheaper than a Tahoe and they feel they are being fiscally responsible by getting it. Mr. Garneau said it’s no different than what both Littleton and Bethlehem are buying. It was also pointed out that a cap can be put on it and these are not particularly expensive.
Ben Jellison interjected at this time that he had been able to do some research with the LGC site regarding special revenue funds. Per RSA 31:95-C, Mr. Jellison said the law is very specific that special revenue funds shall be expended only after a vote by the legislative body, which we had discussed. He said it further states there are no provisions under the special revenue laws for agents to be named to authorize the expenditure from the fund. Chairman Catalano stated except the Selectmen and Mr. Jellison disagreed. They did agree that they would get a ruling on it. Chairman Catalano said he still wants to make a Motion to: Put a freeze on all non-mandatory spending until we, as a Select Board can determine the financial impact of decreasing revenues and increasing tax costs are. Selectman Moroney amended: That we allow them to order the defibrillator as we are getting close to the first of April and we don’t want to lose out on the deal because of a day or two so it. It was asked if the amendment would say “with the exception of ordering the defibrillator” and Chairman Catalano asked before the second is requested, if we should make one amendment to order the defibrillator and the police cruiser. It was agreed it should, Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion as amended passed unanimously.

Chairman Catalano spoke of town legal counsel. He said he wanted to make a motion to replace town counsel as he has lost faith in them. He believes they were key in architecting the “To See” issue that took place – in fact it was one of the principals of the Mitchell Group who argued the case before the Superior Court and he has an issue with that. He believes he was left out of multiple correspondences going to other Select Board members or other people in town after he requested to be included and he doesn’t feel they represent the town effectively. He decided to open up discussion and if members of the public wish to join in to please raise their hands. Selectman Moroney said she has been very happy with the Mitchell Group mainly due to the fact that she had dealt with Bernie Waugh the first three or so years and she had problems with him, i.e. availability, time getting back to her, etc., and felt part of the selling point with the Mitchell Group is they work as a team and if one isn’t there to assist, another will step in. She has found this to be a great asset and they work well together. They came very highly recommended from other towns which have used them and been very happy with them for some time. Before he went to the public, Chairman Catalano asked Selectman Dowling his thoughts and though he said he didn’t know the Mitchell Group that well, just their bringing the “To See” our meeting, he didn’t like. Merriam O’Neal asked if Littleton was one of the towns that recommended them. Selectman Moroney said no, but she believed Lisbon and Franconia were among the several towns in the area. Ms. O’Neal went on to say Littleton where she was from was having lots of issues and she thought there were several lawsuits going on. Ben Jellison said he had spoken in front of a Selectmen’s meeting or candidates’ night and he was very clear that the “To See” thing – the entire topic was a discussion that he had and the Mitchell Group, other than being the Town’s counsel at the time, had nothing to do with it. Chairman Catalano asked Mr. Jellison how it is that a Moderator who should have no opinion asked the Mitchell Group to work with him. Mr. Jellison said he only asked about it, not to work with him. Chairman Catalano further asked what lead up to the topic at all and Mr. Jellison responded that it was a discussion at a Moderator’s workshop, it’s in all the manuals, and it was out there. Chairman Catalano said he struggles on an ethical level that anyone who is supposed to be neutral would invoke something like this. Mr. Jellison said he was asked if it can happen, he said of course it could. But he said he did not make the motion. Evan Karpf said Bernie Waugh’s help was insurmountable when the Planning Board was working on the Dartmouth Brook subdivision. He further said he didn’t know who they were thinking of hiring, but anytime he called Bernie’s office he always got taken care of.

Mr. Jellison spoke up and said he was not done. He said Selectman Dowling said he didn’t like the “To See” thing and he repeated that he is there telling him that the Mitchell Group had nothing to do with it. He also reiterated what Selectman Moroney said that they are very helpful as they are someone you can call and get answers from. He said a case in point is tonight, the Board had phone numbers they could call to discuss an ongoing issue and he believes that’s pretty good service. He said as a Moderator, they have been an excellent firm to work with.

Donna Foster advised that when they got the road in front of their store, Mr. Waugh was supposed to put the surveyor’s description of the land into a deed and they had to send that deed to him three times. Finally they had to spend extra money and hire an attorney to write it properly. She said she would not hire him ever – he may be great at writing up laws but actually working them is another thing and there are other towns she could mention where there have been big problems. Al Strasser said he was very impressed with Bernie Waugh as his firm won a tax case with the Mount Washington Hotel. Jim Covey reiterated that Jae Whitelaw won the argument in court on the “To See” thing. Chairman Catalano concurred and that it was for the Town of Barrington. Mr. Covey went on to say she has just been repudiated by the State of New Hampshire, so they should fire her. Jack Catalano added that based on his experience, they were inept. Selectman Moroney said a great deal of money had been spent working on the AMC PILOT agreement with Bernie Waugh and they went to court several times unprepared and thus lost each time over many years. The Mitchell Group actually finally got this accomplished very successfully.

Sgt. Smalley asked if there were any other options and Chairman Catalano said there probably are. It was also asked if the idea is to get rid of the Mitchell Group. Chairman Catalano said he had spent 25 years dealing with lawyers before he moved up here and that they will do whatever they need to do to manage chargeability and if you do not manage the law firm, you become a revenue stream for them. He was unimpressed with the handling of Gadbois case and the town. He said all law firms have their skeletons, but he was summarily unimpressed and he said he let them know this about their handling of the case. He said he handled way more of this case than he should have had to and because of his involvement, it probably stayed out of court with most likely the best solution possible. He said lawyers do what you tell them to do and when you do not, they do what they want to do. Chairman Catalano stated his opinion is that the Mitchell Group should be replaced with Gardner Fulton and Waugh. Selectman Dowling made a Motion To: Do away with the Mitchell Group and hire Gardner Fulton and Waugh. Chairman Catalano seconded. By a vote of two in favor and one opposed, the Motion passed.

Mr. Jellison asked Selectman Dowling about his decision since he repudiated the Mitchell Group’s involvement in the “To See” issue – as that was his main reason to replace them. Selectman Dowling said when asked who hired Attorney Mitchell for the deliberative session, he said it was the Selectmen and it was not. Mr. Jellison said it was a matter of communication. He had requested Counsel and it was Jae Whitelaw who scheduled but she had to be replaced due to health reasons, it was nothing more than that. Donna Foster cautioned the Selectmen about rehiring Bernie Waugh. Discussion took place if costs had been investigated and about the new firm coming up to speed on any current cases. It was noted all costs will be paid by the town and Mr. Garneau thought it was a waste of money. Evan Karpf said the Planning Board has not ever spoken with the Mitchell Group about the excavation case and said they should encourage the new firm to assign all costs and fees to the defendant. He said they have a great case. Mrs. Foster said it is no guarantee that costs will be paid as the attorney has already said it has been only very times that you get costs back.

Chairman Catalano brought up Melanson Heath & Co. audit and said he had looked at the original proposal and all of his questions were answered, regarding references, resumes, etc. He said they are a very impressive group. Chairman Catalano made a Motion To: Sign the letter of engagement for the 2010 audit. Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion passed unanimously.

Greg Hogan said an ad had been put in the paper for sweeping bids. He had one phone call other than a bid from Avery Sweeping who has been doing the work. He asked if this is considered non-mandatory as he was hoping to schedule them. When asked when it would be, he said he would be calling them but he knew they were hoping to schedule at the same time as other towns in the area. There was discussion of Presby looking at it last year, but there was no bid this year.
Mr. Hogan was told this does not fall into the category of “non-mandatory” so he can schedule.

The following items were approved and signed:

Town Hall Use Permit Application – NH State Police, S. Belanger
Water Warrant – Maher
Oath of Office – Walker
Bank Signature Cards

Under Other

Mr. Jellison said based on discussion last week regarding amending budgets, he went to Al’s source, the DRA and had answers from both DRA and Town Counsel. Mr. Strasser spoke of wanting to amend a line down to 0 at the deliberative session. Mr. Jellison explained what Mr. Strasser considers the budget is not what the State considers the official budget, and it is only the official budget that may be amended. Mr. Jellison read from emails that he had received and will give Mr. Strasser copies.

When asked how much the town will get for the Charger, Sgt. Smalley said the dealership is willing to give $3,500, to everyone’s delight.

As there was no further business, Chairman Catalano asked the Secretary to poll the Board to go into non-public session. She asked Chairman Catalano who said yes and Selectman Moroney who said, yes. Chairman Catalano declared a majority voted to go into non-public for personnel and town aid matters at 9:38 p.m.

At the close of Non-Public Session, Chairman Catalano moved to return to Public Session and seal the minutes from Non-Public Session. Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion passed unanimously.

There being no further discussion, Chairman Catalano made a Motion to: adjourn the meeting. Selectman Moroney seconded and the Motion passed unanimously. Chairman Catalano declared the meeting ended at 9:47 p.m. As it was not discussed to skip next week, the next meeting will be Monday, March 28, 2011.