Planning Board Minutes

PB Minutes of 3.6.25

March 26th, 2025

Town of Carroll Planning Board
Meeting Minutes
March 6, 2025
5:00 PM
“These minutes of the Town of Carroll Planning Board have been recorded by its secretary. Though believed to be accurate and correct, they are subject to additions, deletions, and corrections by the Planning Board at its next meeting when the Board votes its final approval of the minutes. They are being made available at this time to conform to the requirements of New Hampshire RSA 91-A:2.”
Planning Board Members Present: Chair Alex Foti, Vice Chair Austin Alvarez, Rena Vecchio, Paula Murphy, Jules Marquis, Tom Godfrey
Public Present: Tom Smith, Matt Penner, Kristin Karol, Syed Nuruzzaman, Tom Smith, Cathy Conway, Attorney Andy Sullivan
Minutes Taken By: Steffanie Apostle

Item #1: Call Meeting to Order
Meeting was called to order at 5:15pm
Item #2: Pledge of Allegiance
Item #3: Attendance / Quorum
Quorum was met
Item #4: Approval of Minutes – February 13, 2025
Rena Vecchio made a motion to approve the minutes
Jules Marquis seconded the motion
Alex Foti & Tom Godfrey abstained as they were not at the February 13th meeting
All were in favor motion passed and minutes for 2/13/25 were approved

Item #5: Mike Spinelli – Parker Road Subdivision Consult
Tom Smith introduced himself to the Planning Board as the surveyor for Mike Spinelli who was unable to make it to the meeting due to a scheduling conflict. Tom Smith explained to the Board he was here a few months ago with Mike Spinelli looking at other possible options for a subdivision. There were a few different options but due to the cost of building the road and other associated costs they have come back to square one. The only difference between the original plan and this plan is, instead of extending this line here they are going to do a dog leg piece over there. They are looking to build a short section of Town spec road to create frontage to be able to handle (3) lots. On Parker Road there is a little frontage there with an existing driveway going up to an existing house site. Tom Smith said what he had talked to the Board about before was for a relaxation to the (2) houses per driveway rule; they would like permission for (3)
Alex Foti asked Tom Smith if he would be extending the driveway to go further
Tom Smith said yes exactly. The reason being is there is a band of wetlands down near the bottom they would like to avoid impacting
Alex Foti said that makes sense to him as a hardship
Tom Smith said they will be large lots. The smallest lot is 5.5 acres. A question Tom Smith had was what process the Planning Board would like to see for the road
Alex Foti said that information he would need to talk to the road agent about
Tom Smith asked if the road needed to be constructed before the plan was approved because some Towns want that
Alex Foti said no
Paula Murphy said she believed the road specs were outlined in the Subdivision Regulations
Tom Smith said he didn’t have anything else and asked the Planning Board if they had any questions
Austin Alvarez asked about a driveway permit
Tom Smith said they are working with DOT on that because it was a State Road
Rena Vecchio advised they speak to the Fire Chief
Tom Smith said he believed Mike Spinelli had already talked to him so he would get in touch with Mike Spinelli and confirm
Rena Vecchio said he should get a signed letter so we know what they said
Alex Foti asked the Planning Board if they had any other questions, comment, or concerns
Rena Vecchio asked about the (3) houses on (1) driveway and if that would need to go to the Zoning Board
Alex Foti said no that It would come back to them as the Planning Board
Tom Smith asked if they needed a formal request
Alex Foti said yes
Tom Smith said they will work on getting the letters and pertinent information together
Alex Foti told Tom Smith they needed it 21 days before the scheduled meeting
Steffanie Apostle kept a map for record
Tom Smith said he would bring better maps to the next meeting with more information
Item #6: Echo Lake Update

Attorney Andy Sullivan spoke to the Planning Board. The issues in regards to fire protection had been resolved with Fire Chief Jeff Duncan. The original Phase I has been approved and recorded years ago and since then there have been (2) new site plans approved with a third one coming along as soon as they are finished adding augmentations to it that were required because of Phase II. Phase II has no subdivision yet but the plan was conditionally approved. There were questions on fire ponds and water flow but that has been resolved because they are not doing the condominiums anymore. Attorney Andy Sullivan said they would commit to (7) single family homes and the rest would be either duplexes or more single-family homes based on the market. Attorney Andy Sullivan said he believes they will have met the water flow because the single-family homes would be no more than 2,000 sq/ft
Austin Alvarez asked if they were going to be single family or duplexes
Attorney Andy Sullivan said (7) lots will be restricted on their plans a single family
Alex Foti said if he understood correctly that would reduce the requirements for water
Cathy Conway said she wanted to clarify that they would still be marching forward with getting them all approved as duplexes with the understanding some of them may be single family homes. They do not want to go backwards from where they are today and already having conditional approval for Phase I & II, Attorney Andy Sullivan is just talking about the reality of the market
Rena Vecchio said they had conditional approvals on what they had brought forth which was condominiums and duplexes not single-family homes. Everything will have to be changed again
Cathy Conway said duplexes and single-family homes are defined as the same in regulations
Rena Vecchio said it didn’t show on their paperwork, what was on the paperwork was duplexes and condominiums
Attorney Andy Sullivan said all that will be on the next Site Plan as the Subdivision was just lots. They don’t know exactly what is going to happen because that will be market driven but they are committing to no less than 7 single family homes
Rena Vecchio asked if they were out of doing the condominiums
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they were out of condominiums. They did not want to be out of condominiums but they didn’t want to spend any more time or money on them. As a side note Attorney Andy Sullivan said he was dealing with a different Town for 86 approved condominiums with 42 already built and the Town is not making them go through anything because they have a Site Plan worked out. Attorney Andy Sullivan said this was the first Town he had encountered where they had already submitted all the details on a plan and had to start over. Attorney Andy Sullivan said personally he believed the condominiums would be better but it's going to take too much time and money. Attorney Andy Sullivan said he had a few email conversations with Fire Chief Jeff Duncan and they are on the same page
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said they were right back at the beginning. Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said to be clear he was talking about Echo Lake and not Twin Peaks because Twin Peaks is gone and they are talking strictly about Echo Lake Phase II. Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said that goes back to the conditions they had put in for them before. Phase I moves forward with no questions, Phase II can move forward but because they will still be doing some duplexes and not all single-family homes so the fire pond will still need to go in
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they were keeping the fire pond because it helps with drainage
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan asked if they would still have the dry hydrant
Attorney Andy Sullivan said yes
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said his issues were going to develop if they did condominiums and we were looking at them from the start, but that is not the case
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they were keeping the hydrants for other reasons also
Cathy Conway said the pond will be used for a fire pond and drainage and everything from the 9/26 letter will be in the HOA documents (Homeowners Association)
Attorney Andy Sullivan asked Fire Chief Jeff Duncan if he was satisfied
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said if we were back to where they were a year ago for Echo Lake, they have met all the conditions
Alex Foti asked if they were squared away with the subdivision piece
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they will have to fulfill certain conditions and Cathy Conway would explain that
Rena Vecchio asked if they had duplexes in for Phase II
Attorney Andy Sullivan said he did not know
Rena Vecchio said you don’t know if you are going to need another fire pond
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they were building the additional fire pond regardless because it also helps with drainage
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said it was being designed for some duplexes
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they had (2) subdivisions; (1) has already been approved and the other one will hopefully be ready for the next go around. They will do a 3rd and final Site Plan for Phase I to incorporate all of the stuff from going back and forth this year but tonight was about Phase II
Cathy Conway said these are all conditionally approved and final plans to be recorded
Attorney Andy Sullivan said for the record he had asked Kevin Leonard to be here because his last set of notes going back and forth raised some questions so he suggested Kevin Leonard come but he is not here. Attorney Andy Sullivan said he wanted to make an observation that this has been going on for (2) years with Kevin Leonard and not being at the meetings he is needed at
Rena Vecchio said we need to tell him in advance because he is a very busy person
Alex Foti said he had talked to Kevin Leonard and there was a conflict for tonight's meeting
Attorney Andy Sullivan said he understood but at a certain point in time the Board has established when it is dealing with design issues and they want Kevin Leonard’s face to face input. These meetings have not been fulfilling meetings and Kevin Leonard needs to juggle his schedule. Attorney Andy Sullivan said he understands Kevin Leonard is really busy; everyone is really busy and trying to juggle their schedules. Attorney Andy Sullivan said Kevin Leonard sends out his technical reviews beforehand and then Cathy Conway responds and Kevin Leonard responds back. Other Towns have gotten into trouble over stuff like this. North Conway with the water slide got nailed because they kept dragging the people along for (2) years and we have been dealing with Echo Lake for (3) years now
Rena Vecchio said to be clear that is not the Planning Boards fault
Attorney Andy Sullivan said this has been a rolling project and no small part because they can’t get in sync with the Towns consultant
Paula Murphy made a point of clarification that we are now back to individual lots
Attorney Andy Sullivan said yes, it is going to be (27) lots with (7) ear marked for single family homes. The remaining (20) could be either single family or duplexes. Of the (20) lots that are remaining (3) of them have already been built as duplexes so that leaves (17) lots open to go one way or another
Alex Foti said if these are now back to individual lots, he did not believe they needed a new Site Plan, Site plans are required for multifamily which is (3+) units
Attorney Andy Sullivan said he didn’t believe so
Cathy Conway said they never needed a Site Plan to begin with
Joan Karpf said her concern was outside the fact that he is saying (7) of these lots are going to be single family homes. What is preventing him once it is approved to switch back to condominiums again
Alex Foti said they would have to restart the process all over again
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they would not be doing that again
Joan Karpf asked if that would be a new Subdivision Application
Alex Foti said at that point it would be a new Site Plan
Attorney Andy Sullivan said he had another question. Kevin Leonard made a recommendation that the road be complete before a building permit is issued and Attorney Andy Sullivan said that was foreign to him as they bond all of their work. Phase I is done and they want to start building before the road is done so they will bond the infrastructure costs
Alex Foti said he did not see why they would need to have the road completed before construction as he had never seen that before. The road would be ruined by construction vehicles
Attorney Andy Sullivan said he agreed with Alex Foti but vehemently disagrees with Kevin Leonard’s request to do so
Alex Foti said if Kevin Leonard was present, he would ask what the justification for that requirement was
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said they would need to put some of the infrastructure in at least to the fire hydrant for access.
Attorney Andy Sullivan said that would be before the Certificate of Occupancy but not for the building permit
Alex Foti said it would definitely be needed for the Certificate of Occupancy
Rena Vecchio said she had talked to Scott Sonia about the shallow water main and he wanted a permanent fix
Cathy Conway said that was in her info and she will review that with the Board
Alex Foti said he believed there was an agreement on that
Cathy Conway updated the Board with some results that came from her conversation with Kevin Leonard and she wanted to go through what Attorney Andy Sullivan had talked about and where they were so everyone was on the same page. Cathay Conway presented to the Board some drawings. The first sheet is what they are calling the LePage Culvert. They received a comment letter from Kevin Leonard on 2/28/25 and they had a conversation with Scott Sonia & Kevin Leonard on Wednesday about what to do. There was a 15” culvert coming into the drainage manhole that really wasn’t covered and Kevin Leonard was worried about it getting caught up on a snow plow or something like that. There is not a lot of flow in this area and it is a well-drained area so they agreed to change the culvert to a 12” culvert and then added some rip rap at the inlet. One thing Kevin Leonard mentioned was the road standards require a 30” ditch and they have a 12” ditch with good drainage and little to no water. Cathy Conway said Kevin Leonard agreed to this solution but just wanted to make sure the Planning Board was aware of it.
Alex Foti said as long as Kevin Leonard was in agreement that would be ok because the Board was not culvert experts.
Cathy Conway said she thought they had a solution for everyone on the Lepage culvert. As soon as the weather permits, they were going to restore the Lepage's property. The new culvert will not be on his property so all parties are satisfied. The next thing Cathy Conway wanted to go over was what they have accomplished and what they have left. As Attorney Andy Sullivan has said, this has been a long process. The 2nd sheet in the drawings that Cathy Conway presented to the Board was the original subdivision that created (9) lots when Syed bought it, 10 lots if you include Phase II. This subdivision had already been recorded. The 3rd page of the drawings was from back in 2019 when they did a Site Plan for Phase I and had that recorded. Once they started Phase II, things in Phase I started changing because of Phase II, they had to widen the road, add some drainage, and a few other things so the Planning Board asked them to get a new Site Plan approved. Now in 2023 they received a conditional approval for that Site Plan. The next sheet in the drawings was what was submitted for the conditional approval and has now been updated with all of the newest things such as the Lepage culvert and all of the easements. Now they are at the point where they believe they have addressed all of the comments. In the next few weeks, the goal is to finalize this and have Kevin Leonard review it so they could get it to the Planning Board with a mylar for recording
Attorney Andy Sullivan said at that point he could finish the HOA once they know they have what everyone wants. This was already recorded (3) years ago but needs to be amended
Cathy Conway said the plan was about 90% done and she just needed to address some of the finer details in the comments by Kevin Leonard. The next page of the drawings was what they had for the Site Plan for Phase II and Cathy Conway believed it addressed all of Kevin Leonard comments. Some of the comments were related to lot #1 where they would be crossing the town water main that only has 20’ feet of cover. The agreement made during construction of the pond was 2’ of material over the area so it was protected. Cathy Conway said that in her conversation with Scott Sonia & Kevin Leonard on Wednesday Scott Sonia had asked for the 2’ of material plus a steel/concrete plate to distribute the load so they didn’t damage it and they were working on that detail. The difference in opinion was Scott Sonia felt that was necessary for construction with heavy equipment and Kevin Leonard said the Planning Board wanted it permanently. That detail can be developed but Cathy Conway’s question was is this temporary as Scott Sonia suggested or permanent as Kevin Leonard suggested
Rena Vecchio said she would do it permanent as they would already be doing it for the building and construction and wondered why they couldn't make it permanent
Cathy Conway said because it's going to cost $30,000 - $50,000. Cathy suggested using a wetland mat because every little thing the Planning Board requests adds to the cost of the development. Scott Sonia felt a pickup truck was different than a heavy piece of equipment but Kevin Leonard wanted the permanent solution and she needs to know what to do
Alex Foti said he also had concern about a new owner planting a tree by the water main
Paula Murphy agreed and asked how we could prevent a future homeowner from doing something like that
Attorney Andy Sullivan said that could be addressed on the plans as well as with the HOA
Cathy Conway said she believed there was an easement
Attorney Andy Sullivan said there was an easement but that easement doesn't have a restriction so they will add restricted development to it
Paula Murphy liked that idea
Alex Foti said he would be ok with that
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said there will be fuel delivery trucks, possibly fire engines and other trucks bigger than a pickup truck that Scott Sonia should consider
Tom Godfrey said if they ever had to do tree work and bring in a crane they will have to know where they can’t drive
Rena Vecchio said when she had talked to Scott Sonia, he told her he wanted a permanent fix
Cathy Conway said when she spoke with Scott Sonia, he only wanted a temporary fix
Rena Vecchio said she may have misunderstood Scott Sonia
Paula Murphy said they needed some clarification and it needs to be addressed in the HOA to protect the area because of future homeowners that won’t know
Alex Foti said this is where having something in writing from Scott Sonia makes a difference
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they could also put it in the deed
Austin Alvarez said Kevin Leonard is the expert and if he wants it we should do it
Cathy Conway said that Kevin Leonard was requesting it because the Planning Board wanted it
Austin Alvarez said Kevin Leonard said we wanted it
Cathy Conway said that Kevin Leonard said the Planning Board is requiring it
Rena Vecchio said let’s see what Scott Sonia says
Alex Foti said personally if Scott Sonia is comfortable with not having it he couldn’t see the Planning Board requiring it
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they would add signage that anything over 2500 CC’s can’t drive across it
Jules Marquis said this last spring the driveway at his camp was so soft you couldn't drive on it so they got some ground cloth with 6” of gravel on it and a 30,000-pound dump truck can go across without even making a dent. Jules Marquis suggested if they were not doing the permanent fix to use the ground cloth which has been used for swamps so heavy equipment can cross it and its not affected
Cathy Conway said putting 2’ of material over the ground cloth was one thing but a permanent structure is another
Jules Marquis said the ground cloth was cheap and distributed the weight
Cathy Conway said the decision she needs she will talk to Scott Sonia about and get it in writing for the Planning Board
Alex Foti asked the Planning Board if there was anyone that feels if Scott Sonia says this will be ok that we still need to require it
Rena Vecchio said that we should wait to see what Kevin Leonard and Scott Sonia say
Austin Alvarez agreed
Jules Marquis asked them if they are not going to do steel plates will they be doing the ground cloth
Cathy Conway said she made a note to do a detail with fabric and 2’ of material and that it would also be addressed in the HOA documents
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they would put it in the HOA documents and put a weight limit on it
Cathy Conway said in terms of Kevin Leonard’s most recent letter the water main was the biggest conversation. The fire ponds everyone was good with and the other items were not related to the engineered design but cost estimates. Kevin Leonard has to come up with the cost monitoring escrow account. The last sheet in the drawings is an easement sheet that they will have recorded because there are so many easements and with the drawing it will help clarify them. The plan is Phase I subdivision is ready and they are going to record the Phase I Site Plan and the easement sheet
Alex Foti asked if these easements are in favor of the Association
Cathy Conway said yes, they were for drainage, maintenance, slopes and things of that nature
Alex Foti asked if the Association would be responsible for maintaining
Attorney Andy Sullivan said the Association would be maintaining them and they will also have the power to put a lien and make rules
Cathy Conway said the other thing she knew that needed to be done was the as-builts for Phase I that were mentioned in Kevin Leonard’s letter; they are waiting for construction to be complete to do those. Once those plans are done and they are in agreement with Kevin Leonard and have something from Scott Sonia in writing there should be no more conditions or reviews. Sometimes what is frustrating is they address one thing and something else comes up so it becomes hard to hit a moving target and they just want to get to the finish line.
Paula Murphy asked how many bedrooms will the single-family homes have
Attorney Andy Sullivan said that would be market driven
Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said that the homes will be less than 2,000 sq. ft
Attorney Andy Sullivan said they would probably be (3) bedroom homes but it could be that someone else likes a different design and only want (2) bedrooms
Cathy Conway said the lots are all sized to handle 6-8 bedrooms
Paula Murphy asked if the duplexes would be the same
Cathy Conway said if you look at the 2nd & 3rd sheet there are (3) lots that can only handle (6)
Attorney Andy Sullivan said the duplexes would also be market driven
Alex Foti said that the Planning Board didn’t really have a say in that once they have a lot
Cathy Conway said when you go to DES for septic approval which is required for a building permit, they will make sure the septic fits the spec before they approve
Alex Foti said that seemed reasonable
Rena Vecchio asked about the letter they received from Mr. LePage requesting a berm
Cathy Conway said she did and he wanted trees as a barrier so they will leave as many as they can because Syed would also like a tree buffer as well. They can’t move the driveway because it will become too tight of a curve to work with
Syed Nuruzzaman said there was approximately 10’ between his driveway and the property
Cathy Conway said there had been a shed that had encroached onto Syed Nuruzzaman’s property and they believe Mr. Lepage thought the property was laid out a little different and has since moved his shed
Alex Foti said the next steps are for them to get together with Scott Sonia and get an updated subdivision plan
Cathy Conway said she would talk to Scott Sonia and make a more formal submission to Kevin Leonard and get letters the Planning Board requested with hopes to get a mylar signed
Austin Alvarez asked Cathy Conway to have Kevin Leonard & Scott Sonias agreement before the next meeting
Cathy Conway said that was her plan. Her and Kevin Leonard have come to a verbal agreement on what needs to be done and make a formal submission
Steffanie Apostle kept a set of drawings
Item #7: New / Other Business
At the April meeting there will be a Boundary Line Adjustment for Paul Martin & Poplar Realty
Joan Karpf said she had a few things to say as an abutter to Echo Lake
Alex Foti told her to comment away
Joan Karpf said that Alex Foti was absolutely right and once these lots are designed there is nothing they can do about it. Joan Karpf asked the Planning Board if anyone had walked the property because there is a pond on it. The pond is a very important habitat for frogs. Frogs might not mean anything to the Board but the frogs eat the mosquitos. Joan Karpf's personal opinion was when you disturb a habitat like that other problems occur. Joan Karp said she has been the Chair for the conservation committee for over 10 years. In the spring time those frogs get loud and Joan Karpf couldn’t imagine just anyone living next to it and not trying to stop the frogs. The road that goes next to the pond will probably be salted in the winter and the salt gets into the pond and changes the PH and that changes life. Joan Karpf feels that area is going to be destroyed. When you get a lot of mosquito’s people start spraying and they use an oil-based pesticide. That oil-based pesticide goes into the water, the water then goes into the Ammonoosuc River and then all of the fish that this State relies on gets killed by the pesticide. Joan Karpf said when she came here for the first meeting for Echo Lake, she told the Planning Board there was something in the Ordinance called average sizing lots and that was put in the ordinance in 2018 to help try to balance the environment but still allow developers to build what they want but on flexible size lots. Joan Karpf said she did not see the Planning Board utilizing that and she did not understand why
Alex Foti said that was discussed at length during their first application
Joan Karpf asked why they didn’t use it
Alex Foti said first and foremost they have limitations to what they can and can’t do. Most people up here live by a river, a pond, or a lake and you can’t tell them everyone else can build but not you
Joan Karpf said there was nowhere she said No, what she was saying was to utilize what the Town voted on which was over 80% of the residents to balance environment & development
Paula Murphy asked Joan Karpf if she was saying the pond was not being protected
Joan Karpf said there was a house on the property and a road that goes very close to it
Cathy Conway said they had added curbing to that section of the road to prevent run off to address some of the concerns as part of the wetlands permit in addition to accommodating the passage of animals
Joan Karpf said she really appreciated that because that was a request she had sent to DES. There are ways to give these people what they want without having as much impact on wetlands and Joan Karpf hopes that in the future the Planning Board would use that negotiating tool.
Alex Foti said he believed they did and this was discussed at great length at the initial application submission
Joan Karpf said there was no change to the lots
Alex Foti said they rerouted part of it to reduce wetlands impact
Joan Karpf said she does natural resource inventory and she knows everything about our land and a lot of it is wetlands. Joan Karpf hopes when the next developers come to build on more wetlands the Town uses the tools they have. The other question Joan Karpf had was in regards to the questions she had for the lawyers at the last meeting
Steffanie Apostle said she didn't have the answers yet as we just switched lawyers but she would reach out to the new ones
Joan Karpf said she contacted Tara Bamford who had sat with the Board in 2018 and helped come up with these innovative ideas. Joan Karpf handed a copy of the email to the Planning Board so they could see she was very objective and did not ask Tara Bamford to tell Joan Karpf what she wanted to hear. Joan Karpf explained she wanted Tara Bamford to tell her what her interpretation of the Ordinance was. Joan Karpf said for those of you who don’t know Tara Bamford she has been in the business over 30 years working with different Towns to develop ordinances. At the last meeting Joan Karpf said she tried to explain what Tara Bamford said in regards to a PUD and a Condominium
Alex Foti said that a condominium is a type of ownership not a use so it can’t be treated differently than buildings
There was a heated exchange between Alex Foti and Joan Karpf in regards to PUD’s
Jules Marquis & Tom Godfrey got up and left the meeting
Meeting was adjourned at 6:41pm; Austin made the motion and Rena Vecchio seconded it