Planning Board Minutes

Minutes of 5/2/2024

May 21st, 2024

Town of Carroll Planning Board
Meeting Minutes
May 2, 2024
5:00 PM

“These minutes of the Town of Carroll Planning Board have been recorded by its secretary. Though believed to be accurate and correct, they are subject to additions, deletions, and corrections by the Planning Board at its next meeting when the Board votes its final approval of the minutes. They are being made available at this time to conform to the requirements of New Hampshire RSA 91-A:2.”

Planning Board Members Present: Alex Foti, Austin Alvarez, Rena Vecchio, Paula Murphy, Don Jones

Public Present: Kevin Leonard of Northpoint Engineering, Cathy Conway of Horizons Engineering, Stephen Soscia of North Woods, Fire Chief Jeff Duncan, Scott Sonia Public Works, David Scalley, John Greer, John Phillip, Andrew Sullivan, Nabeela Syed, Syed Nuruzzaman, Lois Pesman, Roger Gagne, Gardner Kellogg
Minutes Taken By: Steffanie Apostle

Item 1: The meeting was called to order by Austin Alvarez at 5:00 p.m.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
Item 3: Attendance taken; Quorum Met
Item 4: Approval of Minutes – April 17, 2024
Don Jones asked if we had a strategy for minutes in regards to too much vs. not enough. It was decided they would prefer more than less as it is to present findings of facts and we do not keep recordings.
Austin Alvarez mentioned the Secretary’s name was mis-spelled and that we should write out the meaning of ADU to Accessory Dwelling Unit on page 4. A motion was made from Austin Alvarez to accept the meeting minutes as amended and Rena Vecchio seconded the motion. Alex Foti abstained from the vote as he was not here for that meeting.
Alex Foti had a comment about the new ordinance changes and if it would be affecting Echo Lake and clarified that it would not for RSA 676.12 because they had an accepted application at the time the public hearing announcement was made so Echo Lake will go through with the zoning ordinances that were in effect at the time.
Alex Foti brought to Steffanie Apostle's attention that when doing the agenda for the meeting it should be old business first and then new business.
Item 5: BWPOA Collections/Storage/Transfer Facility – Update to provide PB with the latest Site Plan for the Facility
Austin Alvarez recused himself for this vote because he is president of Bretton Woods Property Owners Association (BWPOA) and would be presenting this for approval. Austin Alvarez's goal was to get in front of the Planning Board this week because Don Jones had to leave early at the last meeting and they were unable to present. Austin Alvarez said it had been almost a year since they had gotten approval to move forward with this project and his focus for the night was to get the Planning Board to vote that the minor changes made to the site plan are adequate enough for the Planning Board to approve without submitting a new application. Austin Alvarez gave a quick overview. The minor site plan was approved May 4th. Austin had (2) site plans for comparison. One plan was an April 2023 version that was approved by the Planning Board on May 4th, and the other one was revised to satisfy the State Department of Transportation. Austin Alvarez did receive permits from the Department of Environmental Services on 1/31. Also received was a driveway permit from DOT on 3/26. Austin Alvarez was here to get approval on the updated site plan which was dated 11/17. Alex Foti had checked with New Hampshire Municipal Service Council and they responded that the Planning Board may vote to determine the changes are minimal enough to waive any further submittal of an application or approval. Austin asked if there were any questions.
Alex Foti asked for clarification if the only changes was to the parking
Austin Alvarez stated the only change made to satisfy the DOT was the number of queuing spaces to at least 8. At the end of this we will be documenting everything and anything resulting from the construction and that copy will be sent to the Select Board, Town Clerk, and Planning Board.
Jeff Duncan asked for a copy of the approved report from the DOT saying that they were ok with the traffic changes before he can get an address. Austin Alvarez said he would provide that.
Motion was made to waive the requirement to resubmit application. All were in favor and the motion passed.
Item 6: Review Rules of Procedure
Alex Foti made a motion to move the rules and procedures down to address the current pressing issues. Motion was approved
Item 7: David Scalley / Meredith Bussier – Change Old Town Rd portion of her property back to a private way -Mylar Needed
Dave Scalley brought the mylars in for review and approval. Dave Scalley had addressed the change with Chief Duncan. The change made was to the description of the road from Woods Road to Pauls Path. Mylars were presented and signed off on by the Planning Board
Item 8: Set up Master Plan Committee – We need a separate meeting scheduled for this
Alex Foti made the motion to move the Master Plan Committee to the end of the list. Motion was approved
Item 9: Application Echo Lake Phase II (Continued from May 4, June 1, July 6, August 3, September 7, October 5, November 2, December)
Cathy Conway re-presented her plans to show clarifications on the easement questions and to get a conditional approval of Phase II. Because Phase II was happening within 10 years of Phase I and made it over 100,000 square footage an AOT (Alteration of Terrain) was now required which forced some changes to Phase I.

Cathy Conway brought in her DOT approval for Phase I & Phase II along with her Wetlands Permit. Horizons had redone soil load testing, perk tests and drainage assessments. All testing was located on sheet 2.2 of her presented drawings.

There was a discussion between Cathy Conway, Paula Murphy, Andy Sullivan & Rena Vecchio in regards to how the houses were being sold; condo vs. duplex. Andy Sullivan clarified they were being sold as a duplex and not as a condo.

Cathy Conway addressed some drainage issues that had been resolved. Cathy Conway showed the infiltration ponds with listed elevations and the culvert they had added to the pond for Phase I.

Cathy Conway touched on the AOT Requests and questioned when they would need to be completed. Cathy’s thinking was they wouldn’t need to be added until Phase II because that was what forced them into requiring AOT. Kevin Leonard disagreed and thought they would need to be completed during Phase I. This was very critical because it would affect when they could get their Certificates of Occupancy. It was decided to let AOT review all the information and let AOT decide when they needed to be implemented.

There was a discussion about amending Phase I with the drainage structures. Cathy Conway spoke about her underdrainage plans which was to put drainage down on an as needed basis and Kevin Leonard disagreed because his concern was, they would not get done and they should have pre-planned locations to make sure they were done. Cathy Conway said that until they dug in certain areas, they wouldn’t necessarily know where they were needed.

Alex Foti asked Kevin Leonard for recommendations on where they would be needed and stages where inspections would be appropriate.

Cathy Conway presented her drawings for curbing and road width. Cathy Conway stated that there were no Town regulations on curbing so Cathy Conway referred to DOT regulations. Cathy Conway presented for asphalt curbing with a little necking of the road which she felt would be acceptable with delineators because it was a low volume low speed road. This curbing was to prevent drainage into the wetlands area of the property. Kevin Leonard agreed that it was a low volume low speed road but disagreed with the curbing because of the weather conditions of the North and Kevin Leonard said that granite curbing should be installed without any necking of the road because that was just asking for trouble.

Scott Sonia said he has been plowing his whole life and it would be much safer to have a straight road with the amount of snow we get. If someone hits the curb, they will know it and get hurt.

It was decided Cathy Conway would use granite curbing without any necking of the road.

Cathy Conway moved onto individual lot drainage concerns which had been taken care of.

Cathy Conway talked next about the fire pond. Cathy Conway had Dufrense Group do some hydraulic modeling and discussed the domestic water requirements. Dufrense felt the system had adequate well capacity.

Chief Duncan explained they needed those fire ponds to fight fires because the hydrant was not approved by the Water Commissioner for firefighting, nor would it supply enough water. The Water Commissioner said it was approved for domestic use and not for fighting fires. Chief Duncan stated that initially they would connect to the hydrant but they would use the fire ponds for the remaining water needed. Chief Duncan explained that they had just gone to a fire over the weekend and used approximately 200,000 gallons of water to extinguish the fire which was actually a little bit more than he was requiring for Echo Lake.

Andy Sullivan and Chief Duncan went back and forth over how much use of the hydrant there would be and water calculations needed. Chief Duncan said they came up with their water calculations based on the last house fire in town which was approximately 150,000 gallons of water needed.

Cathy Conway showed the ponds on her drawing and how they were going to increase the slopes of the pond from 3:1 to 2:1 increasing the pond size. There was a quick conversation of requirements for fire truck accessibility. Pond had to be within 25 feet of the road and had to fit a firetruck.

Chief Duncan asked for Kevin Leonard to review the fire pond plans to make sure they met requirements. The next discussion was how the pond would fill and how quickly. The pond needed a quick refill rate within 48 hours because that would be leaving 36 homes without fire protection.

Cathy Conway said according to her estimates it would refill in about 19 hours due to the pond being in the wetlands.

Alex Foti asked for clarification as he thought the ponds were well fed, but they are not. Kevin Leonard explained how it was a storm pond.

Chief Duncan brought up his concern for drought weather and if it did not fill up in time. Cathy Conway said that if that was the case the HOA would bring in tanker trucks to fill the pond.

They discussed excessive rain into the pond and Cathy Conway said they had spillways for that.

They quickly discussed how much water the fire truck held, the fire over the weekend Chief Duncan was at and the current water system that was built in 1994 when we did not have this capacity of people.

Scott Sonia brought up summer tourism in the town. The number of campgrounds that were in use during the summer and when peak times and flows were.

John Greer discussed some of the water discussions the Select Board were having. Alex Foti reminded John Greer how he had sent information over to them regarding a water grant.

Cathy Conway said now that they were all on the same page, she could submit her plans to DES for their approval and our approval; she needs both.

Cathy Conway discussed the road fabric they were using and where it would be going. The fabric was along the lines of the drainage; as needed basis. Alex Foti asked Kevin Leonard if he would assist Cathy Conway with that and come up with inspection requirements and milestones.

There was a quick discussion about who issues the Certificate of Occupancy and it was determined that was issued by the Select Board not the Planning Board.

Alex Foti asked Kevin Leonard and Cathy Conway to come to agreements/compromise on certain engineering aspects of the project and they agreed.

There was a quick discussion about performance bonds and escrow accounts.

Alex made a motion to approve with the following conditions
• Kevin Leonard & Cathy Conway to agree to the specifications of construction/engineering
• Performance Bond in an amount to be determined by Kevin Leonard and in place prior to construction
• Construction monitoring escrow created and funded prior to initiating project
• Satisfactory review of legal documents by the Town Council
• All necessary State Permits approved and reviewed by Fire Chief prior to construction


Item 10: Livingston Conservation – Access of Easement
Gardner Kellogg & Steven Soscia came before the Planning Board asking for guidance and direction on developing an area of land for some housing for a family compound. They provided documents to show where they wanted to develop an area within
Alex Foti asked Is it the green
Gardner Kellogg said yes it was and it was for houses for their family type of compound thing so they were here to sort of get their feet wet and see what kind of direction we need to go in. He said there's a conservation easement on this road; Range Road and they got an opinion from an attorney, which indicated that that was fine.
Gardner Kellogg said they also had access here (showed on map)
Alex Foti said this seems straightforward and asked if there was any specific concern because he thought that some were talking about modifying for access purposes
Gardner Kellogg said there was something in there that said they have extra land in there and they thought perhaps if the easement could be altered to add some of this land.
Alex Foti asked if the easement was included in this road
Gardner Kellogg said there is an easement along that roadway into across the conservation easement to the land in the back. This is another question of whether the Conservation easement can be altered. Maybe include some land here to make the access more reasonable, and if they would be willing to gain land for Conservation and exchange. But they had not spoken to anyone about that
Alex Foti as a thought, that it seems like it would be really easy just to remove this section out of the easement. They had plenty of wetland back there you can't do anything with and from a conservation perspective, that's the most precious. Give them a little bit of the wetland and take out a little bit of it here. Just so that you have road frontage and make it really clear.
Steven Soscia said they would be amenable to that. They just purchased the property and their intention Is to build a single home somewhere within this triangle. It seems to be an area where the previous owner already developed a roadway that comes up to the top. They already brought utilities into. Initially there was some question about whether or not the back land had clear access through range road. They were asked to come to the town council and they appeared before the town council. They requested an opinion from your solicitor. Your solicitor provided us with a written opinion. They understand they had access there; they understand that this is protected and they understand that they have access here. They understand that in accordance with the conservation easement they may be able to build something on the conservation land as long as it's for Agricultural purposes. Gardner Kellogg had the conversation a couple months ago about being able to create a proper intersection onto route 3 and the proper angle because of the slope. Gardner Kellogg confirmed with the state that there are already multiple curb cut approvals along the frontage here.
Gardner Kellogg said when they originally had the road straightened, they left a road here. There's one there and there was a building there at one time which is no longer there but there was a driveway for that. So, he would imagine if they needed to obtain a state approval for a driveway here If one doesn't exist and if there are certain state requirements for the intersection being at a certain angle with a certain slope. He then apologized again for being late to the last meeting
Alex Foti said it seems like there's a couple of ways to go about it. If you were to keep things exactly the way they are then he doesn’t see any issues at all. If they want to have certainty with the state and if you need it to modify this you could certainly get a permission from the easement from the land; The Conservation Committee essentially to do that to just negotiate with them and to make this really clean. Take back a piece of this easement and give them a piece of it up there and then they would have unrestricted access. Thinking long term about what you might want to do with the property that could have its own advantages because if at some point you decide you want to subdivide it and get rid of that lot it could be just an entire lot that you don't pay taxes on and goes to conservation land.
Steven Soscia asked if swapping conservation land something that can be done by the local Commission here in town or does it have to go through the state.
Alex Foti said if the town is the beneficiary of the easement, then it would have to be the town. So, it would go through select board. In Alex’s opinion he would just try to modify it and say we give you all this beautiful wetland here that we can't do anything with for part of the lot that was buildable. In the future if you decide you could subdivide it and literally donate that lot even if it's in current use and you're not paying a whole lot of taxes you're still paying taxes on land. Give it to the town for conservation and you keep the part of the lot that's actually buildable.
Steven Soscia asked what restrictions are for how many buildings can be put in?
Rena Vecchio said in a rural area is it one building per acre If you have town water and if you don't have town water two acres without town water.
Steven Soscia said that the town water sort of stops right there.
Jeff Duncan said if you were going to build one in one house, you’d have to subdivide the property into two different lots.
Steven Soscia asked if there any type of cluster provisions within the zoning ordinance that allows that
Rena Vecchio said we do have cluster housing PUD or something Plan.
Steven Soscia said they would have to go through the subdivision process.
Jeff Duncan said If you're building more than a single home you can have an accessory dwelling unit.
Alex Foti said but that's where also I think having this separated will give you more flexibility because it'll be a lot easier to then subdivide. If you have this thing out of the way then you can create frontage more easily
Steven Soscia said exactly 200 feet of frontage for a lot so if you subdivided off Route 3 would it be administrative? If you created a subdivision utilizing the frontage on the existing highway
Alex Foti said yes that's frontage.
Steven Soscia asked what's the process
Alex Foti said It's actually pretty much what Echo Lake (before them) had come in for It's very similar to what they did depending on how many units you have the state may or may not want to get involved. Alex believed it's 10 units when the state gets involved
Steven Soscia said a lot of it is I don't know if the conservation easement can be subdivided.
Alex Foti said no that's he was saying I think you'd be better off if you can negotiate something.
Steven Soscia said they want to protect the field of course it just depends.
Jeff Duncan said the other people you're going to have to get involved with is Bayroot because they have pretty much an unlimited access for logging off of that road and if you're going to change the road, they're going to probably be incorporated in making sure that they’ll have access for logging.
Steven said I see, because they get to this lot from range road.
Jeff Duncan said they go up to here so they'll be accessing that through that road for years.
Steven Soscia said their intention is not to develop a road it was to keep it as a driveway and potentially build one or two homes that would be in the same ownership
Jeff Duncan said you can call it a driveway when you have two homes but when you get to a third home it becomes a road.
Steven Soscia asked can two homes be built on one lot
Alex Foti said that would be an accessory dwelling unit
Jeff Duncan said it has to be 25% of the size of the main home.
Steven Soscia asked what would the next step in the process be.
Alex Foti said he thinks they need to decide sort of which path they want to you choose and what they want to do. If you choose the path of negotiating with the easement you need to go to Select Board and talk to them about a plan and negotiate something that would have to be written up in the deed so that the easement would have to be amended. Alex said as an idea they could even decide to tell the town I’m going to subdivide and donate this entire piece of land to you if you get rid of this easement all together but only the beneficiary of the easement can agree to a change.
Steven Soscia said he thinks the easement adds to the scenic beauty of that whole space and he didn’t want to upset that apple cart, they just want to build a couple houses for the family to enjoy on 300 acres. Steven Soscia said they didn’t want to subdivide; he was a commercial real estate developer by trade so he can relate to everything that happened over the past two hours and God bless all of you for donating your time to this beautiful town.
Alex Foti said if you're doing just one home and you want to use this driveway I think that's easy but probably in the long term it might be worth spending a little time just figuring out if there's an option to modify the easement and get everybody on board with that and then makes your life a lot easier.
Steven asked if they could start the process of getting permits to build a single home while we then have the conversation about modifying the easement for future betterment of the existing home.
Alex Foti said that complicates things because now you already have a home and then you have to go back and change things.
Jeff Duncan said your process needs to start with a driveway permit from the state DOT. They will say if you can or cannot have access to a driveway or where it can be. Then you get your easement and the state will approve your driveway permit. Then you come to the town for a driveway permit and then you get your road and your driveway. There are several little steps before getting their permit. That would probably be the first step is to make sure that the state DOT will allow your driveway wherever you plan on putting it
Steven Soscia said there's an existing driveway there now that services Bayroot so they can come in and out with their logging trucks, 300 trucks a day to log their 1100 acres
Jeff Duncan said it's going to DOT because you're going to be looking for a 911 number which is totally separate and that's the process that you have to go through to get that.
Steven Soscia said that's step 1, get the state permit to validate the existing driveway.
Jeff Duncan said they don't have a 911 number on anything that's there they just have an easement.
Alex Foti said he would start with what you want to do and where you want to be at the end of this and then figure out what the most straightforward path to it is because if you just want to put one house, then it might be a different path than if you want to put 10 and it's going to be different than if you want to put 20. Figure out what you want to do and then again, because you're in this road, if you need to modify it then you're going to need to work with the easement anyways
Steven Soscia said so any more than two homes require a subdivision
Alex Foti said any more than one home and one accessory dwelling unit. Accessory dwelling unit which is 25% of the home.
Steven Soscia & Gardner Kellogg thanked everyone for the guidance and expressed how happy they were to become part of the town.

Item 6: Review Rules of Procedure (moved from beginning of meeting)
All Planning Board members reviewed Rules of Procedures. There were no changes other than a signature page added by Steffanie Apostle. Members that were present signed the signature page and gave to Steffanie Apostle.
Planning Board briefly touched on the warrant articles #2 & #7, they are still with legal review.
Alex Foti briefed everyone on the new cell tower coming to Cherry Mountain in Bretton Woods. A joint Planning & Zoning Board meeting to be scheduled by Steffanie Apostle.
Item 8: Set up Master Plan Committee (moved from beginning of meeting)
A separate meeting was scheduled for the Mater Plan Committee.
Item 11: Carbarn Gate / Fairview Lane
Don Jones the President of Fairway Village Condo said for the last many years Ray Clement has operated his landscaping business out of the barn/stable area on Omni’s property. He paid Omni rent for access to area for his trucks and salt. There have been some homeowners from Car Barn Lane & Fairway Lane that have been complaining about the number of trucks coming in and out, the parking situation and no easement. They got some lawyers involved and tried to reach an agreement with Ray Clement. No option was viable for Ray Clement and an agreement was not reached. Omni has since asked Ray Clement to vacate. This was originally brought to the meeting in regards to getting a fence/gate for the homeowners to limit the access before Ray Clement was asked to vacate.

Item 13: Adjourn
Meeting was adjourned at 8:10pm