Planning Board Minutes

PB Minutes of 4.3.25

April 3rd, 2025

Town of Carroll Planning Board
Meeting Minutes
April 3, 2025
5:00 PM
“These minutes of the Town of Carroll Planning Board have been recorded by its secretary. Though believed to be accurate and correct, they are subject to additions, deletions, and corrections by the Planning Board at its next meeting when the Board votes its final approval of the minutes. They are being made available at this time to conform to the requirements of New Hampshire RSA 91-A:2.”

Planning Board Members Present: Chair Alex Foti, Paula Murphy, Ryan Peffer, Brian Mycko Selectboard Rep.
Public Present: Paul Martin, Poplar Realty, Ansh Singh, Gardner Kellogg, Tom Smith, Fire Chief Jeff Duncan, Mike Spinelli, Susan & Tom Yellope, Scott Sonia, Kevin Leonard
Minutes Taken By: Steffanie Apostle

Item #1: Call Meeting to Order
Meeting was called to order at 5:10pm
Item #2: Pledge of Allegiance
Item #3: Attendance / Quorum
Quorum was met

Item #4: Approval of Minutes – March 6, 2025
Minutes were tabled until the next meeting as there were not enough members present from last month’s meeting to make a quorum to vote on them

Brian Mycko introduced himself to everyone in the room as the Selectboard Rep for the Planning Board. Brian Mycko said he just wanted to remind everyone that the Planning Board is a volunteer position and they should be respected and conversations need to remain civil. If there are raised voices again Brian Mycko will shut it down and ask people to leave out of respect for the folks sitting in the audience, the employees of the Town and the general public. Brian Mycko thanked the crowd

Item #5: Paul Martin / Poplar Realty Boundary Line Adjustment
Gardner Kellog the Land surveyor presented drawings to the Planning Board. Horizons Engineering had previously done a subdivision and some land was sold to Paul Martin. This is just a clearing up of the property lines and layout that both parties have agreed to.

Alex Foti asked Gardner Kellogg if the previous line was essentially the triangle part of the drawing

Gardner Kellogg said it was. There was a little bit of an overlapping section and they have agreed to split the area

Alex Foti reviewed their application and asked if there was anything they were going to be requesting a waiver for

Gardner Kellogg said no it was just a lot line adjustment
Alex Foti asked if there was anyone who wanted to make a motion to accept the application as complete

Paula Murphy made a motion to accept the application and Brian Mycko seconded the motion. All were in favor and motion was passed to accept the application as complete

Alex Foti said now that the application was accepted, he would open it up for discussion and asked if there were any questions or comments from the Board or the public
There were no questions from the Planning Board or the public

Paul Martin spoke to the Board and said he had purchased the property back in 2004. At some point The Palmer Group had put this land into conservation and it should not have been. Paul Martin wanted to state for the minutes that this land should not be conservation.

Brian Mycko told Paul Martin that conservation would go through the State

Paul Martin said he knows that but just wanted to state it for the record

Brian Mycko made a motion to approve the application and Ryan Peffer seconded the motion. All were in favor and motion was passed to approve the application

Item #6: Quaint Glamping – Site Plan Extension
Ansh Singh came before the Planning Board to update everyone on where they stand with Quaint Glamping.

Alex Foti said that they had not started substantial work within the 2-year statutory time frame so they were here for an extension. Alex Foti had checked into what other towns have done and most towns just have an extension form to be completed explaining why the work has not started and what the new current plan is

Steffanie Apostle asked if the plan was good for 5 years

Alex Foti explained that the 5 years was to complete the project but by State Code the work has to be started within 2 years

Brian Mycko asked if they had cleared the lot because that would have been considered work started

Ansh Singh said he had not cleared the lot as it was cleared before they bought it. The most recent work done was so the neighbor could log their land

Alex Foti said this does not happen often and we will create a form for this

Steffanie Apostle said she would work on getting a form created
Brian Mycko asked if it would extend it another 2 years

Alex Foti said yes. If they do not start any substantial work within the next 2 years it will expire again. Alex Foti asked Ansh Singh to give the Planning Board a little background as to what they have been working on

Ansh Singh said he had come to the Planning Board back in 2023 with a Site Plan. With everyone’s blessing the Planning Board approved it and everyone was very excited. That was when the realization started as the excavation quote came in at twice the overall cost and he wasn’t sure if he should laugh or cry. Ansh Singh went out and looked for more excavation quotes but with the Fire Chief’s requirements, the sloping and the asphalt it was very costly. To get the budget they needed they started looking into investors which they have not found yet. Currently Ansh Singh is in talks with Passumpsic Bank and New Hampshire Community Fund. They have shown a path to work together to get this going but they are still in talks. Ansh Singh has ordered a feasibility study as that was something the bank requested and when that was completed, he was going to channel that back to the bank.

Paula Murphy said she was reading the description of the project and it says; Quaint Glamping is a 3-phase project that proposed 45 domes. This application is for Phase 1 containing 12 domes. They are rental studio living spaces with a bathroom and kitchenette. Project also includes a base camp that will allow customers to check in with 12 domes that will be served by a private well and septic onsite. Paula Murphy’s question was are these the same 12 domes or are they separate because it was a little confusing to Paula Murphy as she read it

Alex Foti said he believed Paula Murphy was confused about if it was 12 domes or 12 domes + 12 domes

Ansh Singh said it was just for 12 domes

Alex Foti said Phase I was approved for 12 domes

Paula Murphy thanked Alex Foti & Ansh Singh for the clarification

Ansh Singh said he was anticipating 45-50 domes total and they have a very rough sketch as the dirt calculation was not done at that point. Soil testing has since been done and so was wetlands. Those were a contingency to the original approval along with an approved septic plan

Brian Mycko asked if these would be on Town water

Ansh Singh said they would not as they would be on a private well. The way they had planned it was to see what the water pressure would be. They are also planning to have a retention pond near the base camp that will help support any fire emergency

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan asked if extending this would extend the build out another 2 years
Alex Foti said it would extend the entire project

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan clarified that it would be from the current date (4/3/25) going forward
Alex Foti said yes that is correct and then asked if there were any other questions

There were no other questions

Brian Mycko made a motion to approve the extension and Ryan Peffer seconded the motion. All were in favor and motion passed to extend the Site Plan for Quaint Glamping

Item #7: Mike Spinelli – Parker Road Subdivision Application to subdivide 348 Parker Road into 3 lots
Tom Smith presented new drawings to the Planning Board and gave them a quick rundown of the project. Mr. Spinelli owns the property at the intersection of Route 115 & Parker Road. What they were proposing was a 3-lot subdivision. In order to do that and get the correct frontage they need they need to create a new private road that will give them the frontage. The road is a very short road at approximately 150’ long with a turnaround. The one thing they are aware of that would require a waiver from the Planning Board is the 2 house per driveway rule. They would like to be able to use the existing driveway on Parker Road that served the previous dwelling that was no longer there. They would like to utilize that for 3 house sites. Right now, that is currently being utilized by an abutter (The Ray’s). It had been used for the house that was just taken down on lot 72-1. They would like to use it for Lot 72-3. Lot 72-3 has the required frontage off the road but there are wetlands that cross that property and they don’t want to cross it. If they can use the existing drive off of Parker Road that will avoid the wetlands crossing. The map is an accurate representation of all the wetlands. Each subdivision is over 5 acres so they do not need any State Subdivision approvals

Alex Foti asked if Mike Spinelli or Tom Smith had the waiver in writing

Tom Smith said he did not but he could provide one

Alex Foti said they would need it in writing and to give it to Steffanie Apostle.

Alex Foti and the Planning Board reviewed the application and asked if there were any questions or anyone who wanted to make a motion to accept the application

Bryan Mycko made a motion to accept the application Ryan Peffer seconded the motion but Paula Murphy wanted to abstain

Alex Foti asked Paula Murphy why she wanted to abstain

Paula Murphy said she had some concerns as to where the house may go in regards to the abutting property. Will they take the abutter into consideration when deciding where the house will go
Alex Foti explained procedurally this would be discussing the content of the application and we are just accepting it. Once it is accepted, they can discuss its contents

Paula Murphy was in favor of accepting the application, all members were in favor and motion passed to accept the application

Tom Smith addressed Paula Murphy’s concern and said that anyone can build anywhere on their property as long as they meet the setback lines and are not infringing on the wetlands

Paula Murphy said on the very 1st sketch it had appeared there was a structure planned for less than 200 feet from the abutter

Tom Smith said in their defense it was not their fault the abutter put their house on their property line

Paula Murphy said they were there first and it should be considered

Alex Foti told Paula Murphy the Board could not do that and they have to follow regulations

Brian Mycko said as long as they meet the setbacks

Alex Foti said right now we are not reviewing the Site Plan which would be where the houses go

Tom Smith said he understood Paula Murphy’s concern and he didn’t want the board to think he didn’t

Mike Spinelli said there were options and pushing the house back was one of them but that would be up to the buyer where they want to put the house

Tom Smith said he quit trying to pick out the best house spots because everyone has different ideas and, in the end, it goes by how much money they want to spend

Alex Foti read a letter that was sent in from a resident

Steff,
Thank you for all your help on Thursday.
We would like to raise our concern regarding the proposed access road to the above subdivision.
Route 115 is a north-south state highway and a main route for tractor trailers including logging trucks.
The turning off Route 3 onto Route 115 is a highly travelled intersection including a sharp right-hand turn. The proposed creation of a new access road to the subdivision on Route 115 would result in there being 3 exit/entrances all within a short distance of one another just after this intersection. The 3 exit/entrance roads are also situated on a bend at the start of a long hill.
Thank you for your consideration.

Susan and Tom Yellope


Tom Smith said that Route 115 is a State controlled road and that will fall under the concern of DOT not the Town of Carroll. DOT has received the application and reviewed it and has come back with some questions for the engineer. All things are being considered

Brian Mycko asked if we could make that a condition of the approval

Alex Foti said yes but ultimately it is outside our jurisdiction

Brian Mycko said he agreed with them and it was a tough area. There have been a lot of people that run the stop sign and cause accidents, but if the State approves it there is nothing they can do

Tom Smith said they also had an engineer involved in this project. One of the things was dealing with the location of the hammerhead. The engineer was a DOT engineer for years so they got some great feedback and help.

Brian Mycko said in all reality if they are going to use the other driveway it will only access 1 house so they are just adding 1

Tom Smith said it’s a glorified driveway

Brian Mycko said the hammerhead was just to get frontage. They were not the first person to do that and will not be the last person to do that

Tom Smith said it will also provide a turnaround for emergency vehicles

Paula Murphy asked if they get the waiver for Parker Road would they still need it for Route 115

Tom Smith said yes because they will still need access for 1 lot

Alex Foti said his understanding was they are going to try for a driveway off of Route 115 and call it a hammerhead and propose a driveway off of Parker Road also

Tom Smith said yes. It was a 3-lot subdivision and they were looking for access to 2 lots off of the existing driveway on Parker Road and 1 lot off of route 115. They were trying to make it easier and cheaper for someone to come in the other way

There was a brief discussion between some audience members, Tom Smith, and Mike Spinelli explaining the drawings

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said there were 13 roads in this Town with 3 houses or less; the precedent has been set. The biggest concern is whether it is called a driveway or a road to make sure there is some definition of the width so it can be accessed by emergency vehicles

Alex Foti said procedurally we are not looking at a driveway permit application. The question is how the Planning Board feels about a waiver for the driveway

Tom Smith asked if that would fall under Planning Board or Selectboard for the building permit

Brian Mycko said they could put a condition into the approval that the driveway be maintained at a certain width for emergency access. Brian Mycko said he would think because they would be approving it they could say it has to be at least 15 feet wide

Alex Foti said the Selectboard could do that as they are the ones approving the driveway permit

Brian Mycko said he thinks it should start here because it gives the building inspector what the Board is expecting

Alex Foti said maybe we just keep it broad and say driveway needs to meet the specifications of the Fire Chief

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said he wasn’t saying to make it a driveway vs. a road but if they go the route of a driveway they will need to have a minimum width standard. The other question is what are they going to do for water because the water line that goes up there is not sufficient for all these houses. If they are planning to use 2 wells for 2 homes off of the driveway that is fine but if they wanted Town water, they will end up having to bore under the road

Mike Spinelli said he was going to use the existing water line that went under Jeans house but the other lot will need to drill for a well

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said it sounded like the water line went under the neighbor’s porch

Jean said It does and to access it they have to remove a board because the shut off is under her deck

Scott Sonia said if there was a water leak and he needs to turn the water off all of them would be shut off until the repair was made

Tom Smith said he does not make any claim to Town water on the plan. He looks at it as if someone is going to purchase a lot they have to do their own due diligence for water. Tom Smith said he would suspect they want their own wells but that was speculation. He did not want anyone assuming there would be Town water so it is not on the drawing

Scott Sonia said Mike Spinelli also has the option to drill a well for the parcel of property that does have a hook up, they don’t have to tie into Town water if they don’t want to

Tom Smith said that was good to know because some Towns do not allow that

Alex Foti asked if there were any other questions or concerns

Brian Mycko said he wanted to approve with the conditions that were talked about; the driveway needs to meet the Fire Chiefs requirements and they need to obtain approval from the State

Tom Smith said they were clear on the driveway meeting a certain specification. His question was does that have to be built before the approval of this application

Alex Foti said no it would be a condition to get the building permit

Brian Mycko reiterated they needed a waiver in writing

Kevin Leonard said if they have a driveway serving a single-family home and they are going to add homes to it they would need to do a change of use for DOT

Tom Smith said this one isn’t coming off the State Road it would be off of the Town Road

Kevin Leonard understood and said he heard Tom Smith say a private road and for a hammerhead on a private road they should still use Town Specs for road standards

Brian Mycko said the hammerhead has to be to Town road standards

Brian Mycko made a motion to approve the applications with the conditions they spoke about and Ryan Peffer seconded the motion. All were in favor and motion passed to approve the application

Item #8 Echo Lake Subdivision/Site Plan (Continuance from 1/9/25, 2/6/25, 3/6/25)
Alex Foti said that the applicant was not there so the application would be continued to the next meeting. Alex Foti said Kevin Leonard the Town engineer was there and asked for Kevin Leonard to give the Planning Board an update on where things are, what some of the pitfalls may be and things to be considered.

Kevin Leonard wanted to start by saying he wasn’t at the last meeting and he was a little flustered by some of the things that were being said at the meeting he felt were inaccurate and he did not appreciate the way Echo Lake was throwing him under the bus over their inability to get this project done. They have changed this project 5 times, missed things they needed, not taken his advice and then realized he was right. Kevin Leonard apologized for defending himself but he felt he needed to.

Brian Mycko said that was part of the reason he made the comments at the beginning of the meeting. Brian Mycko said he considered Kevin Leonard as part of the Town and he was not happy at the comments that were made at the last meeting

Kevin Leonard said as you know Scott Sonia got his letter out in regards to the water line crossing which Kevin Leonard thought had been pretty clear when they met with them but then they came to the meeting and said something else.

Alex Foti said that is why they ask for things in writing otherwise it’s a he said she said and the Planning Board has no idea who is right

Scott Sonia said he told Cathy Conway from the start of this project that the water line was an issue. Scott Sonia told Cathy Conway that line needs to be protected as it’s a main transmission line for the Town

Brian Mycko had a map of the water system that Scott Sonia had supplied

Scott Sonia said years ago him and Greg Hogan had to get to the line and it is only 3-3.5 feet deep which is very shallow for a water line

Alex Foti asked what the standard depth was

Kevin Leonard said about 6 feet

Scott Sonia said that line had been hand dug when it was installed back in the day

Brian Mycko said that water line was by his parent’s house and was replaced in the early 80’s
Kevin Leonard said the only reason it hasn’t frozen at such a shallow depth is because it is a main line and gets a lot of water movement

Scott Sonia said it also gets a lot of snow coverage which was great for insulation

Brian Mycko said according to the National Weather Service the frost went down past 30 inches this year. It was a very cold winter and when you drive over it that drives the frost down even further and could freeze the pipe. They had to replace a water line at Birch Street because it kept freezing

Scott Sonia said the ones replaced on Birch Street were 6 feet deep. The problem with some of these is they plow driveways and then there is no water movement and the pipes freeze. Scott Sonia said his concerns with Echo Lake were the cement trucks, lumber trucks, bulldozers, dump trucks, & heavy equipment that will be used at the beginning stages. After that the concern is garbage trucks, fuel trucks, septic trucks, & emergency vehicles

Alex Foti said he thought this water line was in the back in a backyard
Kevin Leonard said there were 2 different scenarios. Lot 9 in the corner of Phase I you would be crossing the waterline off of the hammerhead to enter the building site, the house, the parking, the retention pond and the septic as that is all on the other side of the wetlands. Phase II when you’re coming off the hammerhead the lot on the right before you get to the wetlands, they have a duplex shown but they can’t get the septic to fit partly because of the setbacks with the wetlands so they are putting the septic tank on the near side and the leech field on the far side. There will be construction traffic for that work but once it is done there won’t be much vehicular traffic which is why this letter has 2 different scenarios and recommendations

Alex Foti said they will have to follow Scott Sonias letter

Kevin Leonard said the idea was that we get a detail on a plan but Cathy Conway keeps saying she doesn’t want a structural engineer’s slab. This is similar to what I had them do for the box culvert that is going in Phase II at the wetland crossing. Civil Engineers which is what Kevin Leonard is not a structural engineer but there is certain bedding and treatment Cathy Conway can provide in engineering detail explaining what the Board is looking for and then say slab to be designed by structural engineer at a future date. Then at least the Board will know what the expectation is and what the footprint is. That is what I have asked her to do and she continues to say it is done or all set and then you look at the drawing and it is just a generic note. Cathy Conway needs to be very specific on a construction plan so there are no surprises to the buyer of the lot so just give us the detail that is very clear but she keeps resisting that and I am not sure why

Scott Sonia asked Alex Foti if he knew if they were going to do houses or duplexes

Alex Foti said yes, the current plan is duplexes

Scot Sonia asked if that meant no houses at all

Steffanie Apostle said they are planning on 7 single-family homes which leaves 20 spots open for either duplexes or more single-family homes. Of those 20 remaining spots 3 have already been built as duplexes leaving 17 spots for either single family homes or duplexes which will be market driven

Brian Mycko said they need to come back to the Planning Board with an actual plan. Brian Mycko was on the Board for the original application years ago and they have changed the plan so many times. We as the Board need to put our foot down and tell them they need a definite plan. The problem is they keep changing things and playing a shell game. I hate to say it but they are doing this so if they don’t get their way, they will be bringing us to court. I think we as the Planning Board need to say we need a full application. Yes, Phase I was approved but you need to give up exactly what you are doing

Alex Foti said that’s where some of the disagreement/friction is coming from. They see us as stone walling or delaying them but the reality is every time we talk things have changed and so it’s almost like we are starting over again

Brian Mycko said he could go back to the original plan and it was for single family homes and then at the next meeting it was duplexes then they changed it to town homes then it changed back to duplexes and then to condos and now back to single family homes and duplexes

Alex Foti said the Planning Board wants an accurate specific final plan

Brian Mycko said it has to include what Kevin Leonard, Scott Sonia and Fire Chief Duncan wants. I don’t think they realize that this water line supplies ½ of the Town. This water line goes all the way down to the water tank in Bethlehem by the Fire Chiefs house on Little River Road. If that line freezes or breaks we lose over 1/2 the water system. If they cause a leak, we can’t detect, our pumps will keep pumping water into the middle of the field. We need to protect our Town assets and this is a huge asset. It doesn’t matter that it is in the ground and not visible; our water lines are Town assets.

Kevin Leonard asked if the plan had the Town easement on it

Brian Mycko said yes and it was a 30-foot easement

Kevin Leonard said that in the past Cathy Conway could not find the easement in the registry so we told her to add it to her drawing

Brian Mycko said he could pull up his parent’s deed and it is in the deed. The people who used to own the property in front of it have it in their deed

Steffanie Apostle said she would check with the Registry of Deeds

Brian Mycko said it was on the Plot Plan so it must be recorded

Scott Sonia said if they cross the Town water line with septic and have a water break, we will get septic into the water

Brian Mycko asked why they were crossing the water and septic lines

Scott Sonia said they do not have the setbacks for a septic system

Brian Mycko asked if we could require them to bury the septic line far enough down. In certain cases, water and septic need to be separated by a certain number of feet

Kevin Leonard said that would be the State. The details approved for separation such as no joints crossing each other so if there is a break the integrity of the other line can handle it. Cathy Conway does have those details on the plan.

Alex Foti asked if the water line is so shallow would it be easier for them to go under it

Brian Mycko said that would all depend on the pitch

Scott Sonia said the other thing Kevin Leonard and him were discussing with a duplex the septic and leach field are over there but if they put a smaller dwelling, they could get them both on the same side

Paula Murphy asked who makes that decision

Alex Foti said that would be part of the Site Plan

Kevin Leonard said the way he understood it was our Zoning Ordinance allows the lots to be single family or duplex. They can approve a plan with a duplex environment but technically duplexes bring more traffic which would tie into the road standards. They planned with all duplexes which is the worst-case scenario and if they do some single-family homes that would reduce traffic. Duplexes with 8-bedroom properties affect the wastewater loading so when they file the State Subdivision approval with the State, they will need to demonstrate they have an adequate receiving layer for waste water. The approval reduced the bedroom count on some of the lots because she didn’t have that. In her current plan there are a couple of lots identified that have a lot of wetlands so there isn’t much land and the building count got approved at a lower count

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said if you listen to how carefully they worded it at the last meeting they did not specify the number of bedrooms in the single family. They said they could put 8 bedrooms in a single-family house.

Brian Mycko asked if they were building a McMansion

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said there is no stipulation that prohibits that

Kevin Leonard said to have a 20-bedroom home you need to have a 20-bedroom septic. The State makes you do load calculations to demonstrate you have a receiving layer for that. The State is not going to approve a septic on a lot that can’t handle that

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said they say they’ve already designed the septic system for 2 4-bedroom duplexes. There is nothing that says they can’t keep that same 8-bedroom septic and build a single-family home

Brian Mycko said having an 8-bedroom house up here is nuts

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said he was guessing that it was going to be an investment property

Alex Foti said nobody would rent an 8-bedroom home, there is no market up here for that

Kevin Leonard said he goes to Pittsburg all of the time with 8 guys and rent one big house

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said he and some friends just rented a 12-bedroom house in Burlington and they had to go with 2 units but had there been a bigger one they would have rented that

Brian Mycko said there will always be that but I think in this are 4-bedroom would be more feasible

Brian Mycko said he has spent many winters on that property and he knows the land backwards, forwards and upside down and was very surprised they could even get septic’s in there. He was not surprised they can’t put an 8-bedroom septic in the back because it is very wet.

Scott Sonia said at a meeting he told them to put HTPE to wetlands at the water main. If they have a water leak, we will never know

Brian Mycko said the wetlands don’t totally freeze in the winter so if the pipe froze and broke it’s just going to look like more water

Scott Sonia said the stream that runs through the property runs through the Garneau’s property and does not freeze

Kevin Leonard brought up the Lepage culvert. Kevin Leonard thinks they have that all resolved. He himself has not talked to the Lepage’s he was taking Cathy Conway’s word on that. The Plan Cathy Conway has for that is the best they can do with what they are working with and it will function. This was presented to the Board last month and Cathy Conway is showing it on the latest Phase I plan.

Brian Mycko asked Kevin Leonard if the 12” culvert they presented was acceptable to him

Kevin Leonard said that he thinks it will be fine as there is not a lot of run off there. The one thing to point out is the road standard requires a 30” ditch and she is putting a 13” pipe so there will be a shallow ditch compared to the road standards. This is serving a very small watershed and Kevin Leonard believes it will function. If they were redesigning from scratch, it's not how we would do it but they are kind of in a pickle and I think it is reasonable

Brian Mycko asked Scott Sonia if he was alright with that

Scott Sonia said he was

Alex Foti said then he is happy

Brian Mycko said that was why they asked both Kevin Leonard & Scott Sonia to be there.

Brian Mycko then asked if that was where they were digging the big hole he drove by

Kevin Leonard said it was close and will be in the HOA right of way

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said the one thing they haven’t seen and have been asking for since day 1 was the HOA agreements and everything in their documents. All the requirements he has given them have been reproduced but he has not seen them in documents and he hasn’t seen them being sent to the court for recording.

Brian Mycko said the Planning Board needed a copy of the HOA

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said we have asked for it many times

Alex Foti said he would imagine until they finalize their plan that would be hard to do

Kevin Leonard said his complaint is that they keep telling us it's done and they are pushing the Board so they can record it. I am not going to recommend the Planning Board sign off until all of the legal stuff has gone through Town counsel

Brian Mycko said he agreed with the Fire Chief and they need a copy of the HOA and it needs to go to our legal with all of the issues we’ve had with private roads in this Town and not being able to get fire trucks up them. From Brian Mycko’s personal opinion and the Selectboard opinion this needs to be rock solid

Kevin Leonard said his letter had that as a checklist item and it has been basically ignored. Kevin Leonard’s recommendation to the Board is until they have all of the conditions fulfilled do not to sign the plan. On the checklist of items is also all of the legal stuff that they have not gotten to us. Attorney Andy Sullivan and Cathy Conway can pressure you and say this is the final plan sign on the dotted line and I would not recommend you do that. They have not demonstrated they have all of their ducks in a row.

Paula Murphy said the problem she has seen in her short time on the Board is they have submitted so many plans and then Cathy Conway will say that's already been approved but it is not reflected in the current application and it is very confusing. It should be 1 plan and 1 application

Brian Mycko said we should have 1 plan that has everything, what has happened in the past and what is going on moving forward. They need to stop doing this and then changing everything. Brian Mycko agreed with Kevin, everything has to be here before we sign anything

Alex Foti said I have told them that until Kevin Leonard tells me he is comfortable with this nobody is going to sign
Brian Mycko said there is a reason we have Kevin Leonard; he is here to help us and protect the Town

Scott Sonia said when Phase I first came in Cathy Conway came in and laid out her plans and said after they finished Phase I they were going to start Phase II. In order to do Phase II, they have to complete Phase I. Dave Scalley kept telling them if they were going to build Phase II you might as well upgrade Phase I at the same time

Brian Mycko said if you're going to build a house you might as well put in a decent foundation. You don’t build a house then go back to add a foundation to support the second floor. Having to come back to re-do the roads and make upgrades is making a mess.

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said his guess was the Board was going to get a good set of stamped plans of what they are going to build and when they are done building, they will submit the as-built plans; that's generally how it works

Alex Foti said he understood that and that there may be some variation when they start to build and the rubber hits the road which Kevin Leonard can follow up on. What we are missing is the starting point of what they want to do

Paula Murphy said when Attorney Andy Sullivan answered the question about what they were building he said it would be market driven; that is not good for an approval the Board needs something concrete

Scott Sonia said they need to finish Phase I and let us know how they made out

Paula Murphy said that was in the regulations. You can’t start another Phase until the first Phase is done. Rena says that all the time

Kevin Leonard said that was the sense of Phase I. Work is not yet completed and other stuff was added because they had to get the AOT permit on Phase I for new ponds or to rebuild ponds. The original design for Phase I Cathy Conway didn’t believe they would need the AOT permit so she designed everything not to AOT regulations. Cathy Conway submitted Phase II to AOT but she worded the description to be misleading trying to dodge needing an AOT permit. Kevin Leonard said he called AOT himself because he thought it was the right thing to do and let Cathy Conway know he called. If you remember in a prior meeting we were going back and forth and I told Cathy Conway to let AOT decide as they were the governing agency. Cathy Conway had to redesign all the drainage in Phase I. I expect her to be ramping up on that. The Town has a bond for the whole Phase I scope and they have made lots of progress and added to the scope. What is left to do is still under what was bonded originally so the Town is still protected because there is a bond over the value of the work to be performed. Hopefully in the next couple of months they can complete that and close the gap. Anyone is entitled to a bond release and Kevin Leonard suspects they will come back for that. One conversation that came up in last month's meeting that they blamed Kevin Leonard for that was not true was complaining about the build or bond and arguing that because it has been bonded a Certificate of Occupancy should not be held up. Kevin Leonard agreed with them on that as that is what the State law says. A condition of the original Planning Board approval was that the entire infrastructure was approved and built before these were occupied. Dave Scalley was on the Planning Board and the Selectboard at the time and was adamant about that. Kevin Leonard believed that was wrong and talked to the Town’ s previous counsel on that and they agreed. Up until now Kevin Leonard had not heard anyone from Echo Lake complain about that until last week's meeting. Kevin Leonard believes legally if they are bonded, we can’t hold up their Certificate of Occupancy. Kevin Leonard asked the Planning Board to check with their new counsel on that. Kevin Leonard’s understanding is that some of those buildings are not really done

Alex Foti said that was a question he had because he wasn’t sure what had been completed

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said 1 duplex is done and ready for sale but the other 2 are not. There have not been any inspections done by the fire department.

Alex Foti said even if they are bonded you can’t give a Certificate of Occupancy if the building is not complete

Brian Mycko said once the home is done and the driveway is put in and it passes safety then a Certificate of Occupancy can be issued

Alex Foti asked if the driveway needed to be done before a Certificate of Occupancy can be issued

Brian Mycko said the driveway needs to be in

Kevin Leonard said if you have someone calling for a Certificate of Occupancy, he would recommend all safety objects are in place such as hydrants, stop signs, street signs and things of that nature. Couple lose ends like that and i think you can issue Certificate of Occupancy if the building is complete

Brian Mycko asked if we should check with legal

Fire Chief Jeff Duncan said another thing that confuses things is the wording in the subdivision regulations; infrastructure will be completed prior to issuance of Certificate of Occupancy
Brian Mycko said to check with the lawyer and see what the State says
Alex Foti said this may be an area for next year that maybe we want to amend/update and have legal review

Kevin Leonard said he thought it was reasonable for them to occupy and sell them soon but to make sure the Towns retained a bond covering any remaining work. When they are 100% complete on Phase I you can release the bond. Cathy Conway submitted Phase II plans saying she has addressed Kevin Leonard’s comments which Kevin Leonard just received so he has not had the time to review it. Cathy Conway is supposed to prepare the infrastructure bond estimate and Kevin Leonard will review it. Kevin Leonard said he has not seen it but Cathy Conway says it is done. Kevin Leonard said he owed the Board a construction monitoring escrow amount for Phase II which will not come into play until they move forward with Phase II. When they move forward, they will have to post the bond and it will need to be put into escrow. Kevin Leonard said he believed he would have it in the next week. Kevin Leonard said he believed the fire pond is all set as long as they get the language into the documents.
Scott Sonia asked the Planning Board if they agreed the structure needed to be in place before the work can be done

Alex Foti said if anything that is when it is really needed as that is when you have all the heavy equipment coming in to build.

Brian Mycko said as far as he knew these were modular homes and there have been cranes, rollers, and excavators there. Brian Mycko does not believe Cathy Conway understands that this is the backbone to our water system.

Alex Foti said this definitely has to be in place before any construction starts

Brian Mycko said that needs to be priority #1

Scott Sonia said they had mounded up 2 feet of dirt and put rocks on it and they figured that was good enough. Scott Sonia said he has not agreed with this since day 1 when he heard about the project and made it known the water line was a big concern of his

Brian Mycko asked if we could do a cease and desist if they don’t put the bridge in

Alex Foti said we should put it as a condition of approval that the protection of the water line needs to be done first

Steffanie Apostle asked if it needed to be permanent

Alex Foti said yes, they do it once and then it stays

Scott Sonia said steel plates and swamp mats won’t work. It needs to be a concrete bridge over it with piers on each side. It needs to go over it so there is no pressure at all on it

Brian Mycko asked who would be monitoring this

Scott Sonia said he would probably have to

Brian Mycko asked Kevin Leonard to take a look also

Kevin Leonard said he had been doing milestone inspections along the way. He is not their full time but Tom Rozek the contractor has a common understanding of when Kevin Leonard’s needs to be there and he is really good at calling Kevin Leonard and scheduling for him to come inspect. There had been some payment issues so the work was a little bit stop and go. Back in December Attorney Andy Sullivan and Cathy Conway said they were going to break ground in January and complete everything. We are in Carroll NH, there is a lot of snow and work can be done in the winter but it cost a lot more to do and doesn't make sense

Alex Foti said he was keeping a list of things we still need. The concrete bridge will be a condition of their approval prior to construction and they need to update their plan with that.

Scott Sonia said Cathy Conway is going to try to say they need to build the fire pond first

Brian Mycko said no. To build that fire pond don’t they need to go over the line for that

Kevin Leonard said they don’t need to for the fire pond but the retention pond they will need to cross it

Brian Mycko said if they bring an excavator in to do the retention pond the covering needs to be done first. I don’t understand why they don't understand that

Alex Foti said we need the HOA agreement and we need an infrastructure estimate

Kevin Leonard said all of that was documented in his letter and a condition of the approval was to satisfy the letter. Kevin Leonard said he was on his 10th technical review which was the most he has ever done for any application he has ever had

Alex Foti said to Steffanie Apostle to look at the minutes and make sure it clearly states what we are looking for

Steffanie Apostle said she would and she would send a draft over to Alex Foti for review

Alex Foti said to make sure it captures everything. They can keep coming to the Board until the cows go home but until everything in the letter is addressed, especially the concrete bridge we will not sign the plan. That needs to be clear that we discussed the protection of the water line and it has to be a permanent concrete bridge with 2 piers so they should not come back with meshes and gravel. We as a Board cannot decide on this and we are being told by the experts we need the bridge so they need to build a bridge over it

Brian Mycko said we are listening to the experts which is why we pay them; they know what they are talking about

Alex Foti said ultimately the Planning Boards goal is to protect the town and its assets. We can’t put ½ the Town at risk of no water
Brian Mycko said if they broke the line, it wouldn’t just affect part of the Town, it will affect the whole Town. We would lose pressure and we would tie up all of our resources. If it broke in the middle of winter, it would be such a mess

Kevin Leonard apologized again for not being at the last meeting due to a scheduling conflict

Alex Foti said he heard Kevin Leonard had some fun applications

Kevin Leonard said he had the most complicated application he has had his whole career

Paula Murphy said this was very helpful and thanked Kevin Leonard

Alex Foti thanked Kevin Leonard for making the trip to come the meeting

Brian Mycko asked if the Board should make it a condition to have all this stuff done before Echo Lake comes back

Alex Foti said he didn’t believe they could do that because technically this was a continuation of the hearing

Brian Mycko said it seemed like a waste of everyone's time

Alex Foti said the owner is paying Cathy Conway to show up every meeting and if Cathy Conway is showing up at the meeting and these things are not done it’s going to be a come back next month when it's completed

Scott Sonia told Alex Foti if he wanted to go to the development, he would meet them there

Alex Foti said that was a great idea and that he would like to do a walk through with Scott Sonia in a week or two

Brian Mycko said he would also like to go to the walk through

Paula Murphy asked if Steffanie Apostle should put a list together and send it to Cathy Conway

Alex Foti said we have the list as it is Kevin Leonard’s letter. It needs to be clear until everything in Kevin Leonard’s letter is addressed properly, we are not able to do anything



Item #9: All Other Business

1. Discuss Warrant Article Deadlines
Steffanie Apostle said she put this on the agenda so we don’t miss them this year. Steffanie Apostle said she wasn’t sure when we should start thinking about them

Alex Foti said he thinks we should start thinking about them now

Bran Mycko said October will be here before you know it

Alex Foti said we have summer coming up and he is out a lot

Brian Mycko said as soon as summer starts so do people’s vacation and then all of a sudden, its fall

Alex Foti asked Steffanie Apostle if she had the running list from last year

Steffanie Apostle said she did

Alex Foti asked her to put it together for the next meeting

Brian Mycko said his recommendation would be to review the list at the next meeting and break it up so you discuss 1 article per meeting

Alex Foti said it was a great idea so it's not one really long meeting with all of the warrant articles to be discussed

2. Review Election Results
Election Results were tabled until the next meeting as we did not have enough Board members at this meeting.

Alex Foti said we will also have to review the Rules & Procedures which is a statute

Alex Foti said he would not be at the next meeting but if anyone wanted to step up and be the Chair of the Board, they were welcome to it

3. Other Business
Paula Murphy said she thought it would be really helpful if the Building Inspector David Scalley posted some office hours so if anyone needed to contact him, they could come into the Town Hall during his designated hours and talk to him. Paula Murphy also suggested that David Scalley submits a brief summary or monthly report that says what's been done and what we are waiting on

Alex Foti said that would be a Selectboard question

Brian Mycko said he would bring it up at the next Selectboard meeting as they would already be talking about Town Clerk hours

Paula Murphy said then people would have a sense of what’s going on. How else would we know what's going on? There are some things Paula Murphy would like to pick David Scalleys brain about

Alex Foti said that Paula Murphy could email David Scalley

Paula Murphy said she could but he makes over $62,000 a year for part time job

Brian Mycko said he would discuss that with the Selectboard

Paula Murphy told the Planning Board that Steffanie Apostle works very hard for the Planning Board

Brian Mycko said he knows how hard Steffanie Apostle works

Alex Foti said Steffanie Apostle is a super hero and she rocks her job. Alex Foti said it was really nice to have stability & continuity with the Team we have

Item #10: Adjourn

Motion was by Paula Murphy to adjourn the meeting and was seconded by Brian Mycko
Meeting ended at 7:50pm