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Minutes of 6/3/2021

June 9th, 2021

Town of Carroll Planning Board
Meeting Minutes
June 3, 2021
7:00 PM

“These minutes of the Town of Carroll Planning Board have been recorded by its Secretary. Though believed to be accurate and correct, they are subject to additions, deletions, and corrections by the Planning Board at its next meeting when the Board votes its final approval of the minutes. They are being made available at this time to conform to the requirements of New Hampshire RSA 91-A:2.”

Planning Board Members Present: Chairperson Alex Foti, Vice Chairperson Mike Finn, Austin Alvarez, Julie Roesbery, Donna Foster, Selectmen’s Representative David Scalley

Public Present: Lisa Harley, Planning & Land Use Secretary, Greg & Lori Hogan, David Rogers, Jason Rogers,

Minutes Taken By: Judy Ramsdell

Item 1: The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Foti at 7:00 p.m.

Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance

Item 3: Approval of May 6, 2021 Minutes

Chair Foti said he had a couple of edits:

Page 4 – in the middle “Kevin said he thinks the Board would be flexible to propose some plantings” and Alex said he is thinking that Kevin means the Pike Board, but he is not entirely sure. We could clarify that with Kevin.

Page 7 – the last sentence “wanted to building a house” – it should say “build” not building.
Dave Scalley wanted to discuss a couple of corrections. Dave said that he was not at that meeting:

On Page 7, #8 Follow-Up – Driveway Regulations – It says that “Alex said that keeps being on our agenda, and Dave is purposely avoiding our meetings so we don’t have to talk about it.” Alex said he didn’t say that, and if he did say that he was kidding. Dave said that he was not purposely missing the meetings. He had a family engagement to be at that night and the previous meeting he was out of town. Alex said that was meant to be a joke.

Page 8, first paragraph, fifth line down it states: “The select board for reasons we still are yet to understand since Dave has not been willing to talk about it while the ligation is going on.” Dave said that the select board is not able to discuss it as it is in legal hands, and we are not allowed to discuss it. Dave would like that reflected in the minutes. Alex said that it was accurate and that was what was stated. Dave said he would like the clarification added. Alex said that Dave cannot make additions or clarifications to minutes of a meeting that he was not at. Alex said you can clarify, but you can’t change the content of the minutes. Dave said he would like it clarified that the reason he is not discussing it is because it is in litigation.

Same page, second paragraph “Julie asked about a noise ordinance we were discussing back before Christmas. Julie said that Mr. Scalley said he would write something up on it and we would vote on it in March.” Dave said if you refer to the meeting minutes of April 1st that is not what he said. Dave said they have the right to put together a warrant for town meeting. Alex said it actually himself who was supposed to do that, but he found that we already have a noise ordinance. Julie said she was not making an accusation. Dave is just correcting it because that is not what he said. He isn’t the one who has to write the warrant article. Alex said we don’t need a noise ordinance because we already have one.

Mike Finn made a motion to accept the minutes as edited. Austin Alvarez second. All in favor, no opposed. Donna Foster & Dave Scalley abstained. The minutes of May 6, 2021 are approved as edited.

Item 4: Conceptual Consultation – Jason Rogers – Wants to build eight single-family log homes on the property instead of 24 condos. Lot#207-020-056-025, which is on Route 3 and Mahyln Road

Jason and David Rogers attended the meeting, and they said they are looking for input. Jason said that they have some land they bought, and when they bought it was zoned and approved for 24 condos, and they really don’t want to do that. They would like to put 3 log cabins or something similar, not condos. What is the best way to do it? Subdivide it into three lots? Or do you want us to stay as a condo complex? David Rogers said that they want something there for their children. David said he and Jason and their other brother own the property. Alex said that there are multiple ways to do it. You can subdivide them individually and have individual homes that you can sell individually. You can create a multi-family property and create a condo structure. From the town perspective, whatever route you choose there is an application process. Jason said he is thinking that the next step is to go to a surveyor or engineer and have them draw up something for us. Alex said that they really need to think about what they would like to do, and there is a legal path to do that. Do you want to create individual lots? Jason said that they are flexible. He said they would like to go to an engineer and say draw me x. They don’t want to come up with the wrong plan and waste the board’s time. David said that most surveyors and engineers in the area are familiar with the rules and regulations of the Carroll Zoning Ordinance as well as the subdivision rules and regulations. They should be able to direct them in the right path with whatever their desire might be whether it be a subdivision, or lots, or condos or whatever. It is not in the town’s purview to give suggestions of how and what you need to do. Jason said that they don’t want to tick anyone off. Alex said that they should talk to the engineers and come up with a plan, and they can have another consultation where we can talk about what path they want to go. Alex said they don’t have to have their plans solidified. For example, they could say we have decided that we are going to subdivide, and we are going to have 8 lots of 5 acres. It is really up to them to decide what they want to do. Dave said that a surveyor will help them with soil types and topo to be sure they meet the state septic requirements. Jason said they don’t think that would have changed much from when it was approved for the condo units. Dave said their first step is to hire a surveyor, who would know the rules and regulations. Jason said they just weren’t sure what they could and can’t do. Chair Foti said as long as they stay within the guidelines of what can be done with the land with lot size and access requirements and abide by the zoning ordinance. They could come with a draft set of plans for a consultation. Engineers and surveyors would know that. Chair Foti said that is what we are here for to help people. Mike Finn asked about acreage. Dave said that it is 24.678 acres with 500 feet of frontage on Mahlyn Road. Dave said that he wouldn’t think that the State would allow them to come off of Route 3. Jason said that they probably wouldn’t want to. Engineer would help with best access. Dave said their best bet is to start with a surveyor and an engineer who will them what they can and can’t do with the rules and regulations and the ordinance. Dave said that you are never wasting the board’s time. Alex said to come as many times as they need to.

Item 4a – Greg Hogan - Consultation
Chair Foti said that he had some back and forth with Lisa adding this to the agenda. With consultations there is no legal requirement to file and what-not. Alex said as a board we do only meet once a month, and we do welcome walk-ins. Alex said from his perspective, we are here to help people. He didn’t really want to tell Greg that he has to wait another month and two days. Dave said the RSA does allow that. Alex said he checked the RSA as well, and it is up to us, and we don’t have a rule on it. Mike said if there is room on the agenda, so we are not here until 11:00 pm, then he does not see a reason not to let them come in. On a night like tonight, it is fine.

Greg & Lori Hogan said it is just a continuation for what they spoke of before. Alex said Greg’s question is he has a lot that they would like to create another very small, non-conforming lot to maintain access for the snowmobile club and for a billboard. Alex said he followed up with NHMA Steve Buckley, and he said we don’t, as a board, have the authority to do that as it is a non-conforming lot so it would have to go to ZBA for a variance then back to the planning board. Greg and Lori said that they just wanted to get that confirmation, so they are moving forward in the right direction. Is there anything we can do it tonight so we can move forward? Dave Scalley asked if we have an application yet, and Chair Foti said that we do not. They can apply for the next meeting, and we have a 30-day window before we approve the application. They should get their application in for the next meeting. Lisa can help with that. It needs to be submitted three weeks prior to that meeting, and we will meet as a board and accept the application. We have in the past gotten in hot water by making a decision at the first meeting, so we wait until the next meeting for the approval. In between the first meeting of the planning board and the second meeting, they can go to the ZBA and they will come back after they get their ZBA approval and they will have everything. There are two applications, the Planning Board application and the ZBA application. Greg and Lori asked if it has to be surveyed, and does it need to get surveyed before the meeting? Chair Foti said yes it does as that is part of the application. They will need an application and survey for the ZBA as well. They will go for their variance with the zoning board, and then subdivide that lot. They wanted to be sure they were able to do it. The ZBA can’t make a vote without their application in place. Dave Scalley said if they are going to the ZBA for a variance, the ZBA is going to need to know what the variance is for. Greg said they wanted to be sure they would be able to do this before they had it surveyed and spent money on that. Alex said to be sure to review the 5 specific criteria for the variance and why they meet those criteria.

Item 5: Follow-Up Driveway Regulations
Alex said can we just table this until the court case is resolved. Dave said if the follow-up for the driveway regulations involves the case, then we can’t discuss that tonight. Alex said it involves the case. What was about that made it not ok with the select board and follow up to that is there anything in our ordinance we should change. Dave Scalley said there is always things in the ordinance that need to be relooked at. Alex said that there is nothing in the ordinance about driveways other than the definition. Dave said this is public knowledge, as ZBA got a copy, one of the questions on the decision by the planning board was there is no road frontage for that lot or for that driveway. That is all Dave really can discuss about that. Alex said it makes no sense to keep this on the agenda until we can talk about it
freely. Alex said we should also think about what else we may need to change next year. We will encounter situations that are not clear and come September we want to think about changes. Dave said we really should be doing that in August. Every year we are scrambling and are too late for warrant articles. Dave said we don’t have a lot going on now so now is the time to take 30 minutes at the next meeting and discuss some of these things that we may want to change. Alex said that we can add this agenda item for the next meeting to discuss ordinance issues. Look through and see what has come up recently. Dave suggested we look at the criteria for the driveway regulations. We are in NH. There isn’t a driveway at Bretton Woods or Ledgewood that would meet our rules and regulations. People want to be up at the top of the mountain. They want the views, and they have to get up there. Let’s discuss something we can work with to let them do that but consider Jeremy’s needs to get the apparatus up there. That can be simple with a sprinkler system. There are other options and understand what the need is. Alex doesn’t understand the road frontage. Julie asked why is the state regulation bigger? Alex said that ours is more restrictive. Dave said you can only be more stringent or equal or better not equal or less. Driveway off a state road is different. Everyone has to have road frontage. Maybe that is something to look at. Julie asked about the Jellison driveway permit. Dave said that the Zoning Board actually approved the Jellison driveway because it was a hardship case. He had road frontage on Route 3 and couldn’t get the curb cut so the state denied it. He already has the lot with frontage, and he meets all the requirements. State wouldn’t let him do a curb cut. Julie asked if the road has to be approved. Dave said if you want the town to take it over, you have to meet the rules and regulations of the town’s guidelines. Dave suggests that the Board review things in the next month or two. Board shouldn’t be trying to change those things in October because you are pushing things. Donna said start as early as next month.

Item 6: Adjourn
Julie Roesbery motioned to adjourn the meeting. Mike Finn second. All in favor, no opposed. Meeting Adjourned at 7:29 p.m.